Big Draw, Am I Out of Line?

[DirtDog]

I'm not sure about this hand all the way around. Any comments or suggestions on a better line are welcome and appreciated.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $4 BB (5 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Table probably sees me as aggressive TAG.

saw flop|<font color="#C00000">saw showdown</font>

<font color="#C00000">Button ($412)</font> Somewhat LAG, don't know much about him.
SB ($2024.15) Seems like a good LAG, hes 26.8/13.6
<font color="#C00000">Hero ($420.60)</font>
UTG ($614) Loose Passive - 31/3/1.2
MP ($163) Very LAG, like 50/35 haven't played much with him though.

Preflop: Hero is BB with K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
UTG calls $4, <font color="#CC3333">MP raises to $16</font>, Button calls $16, SB calls $14, Hero calls $12, UTG calls $12.

Flop: ($80) 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
SB checks, Hero checks, UTG checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP bets $80</font>, Button calls $80, SB folds, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $200</font>, UTG folds, MP folds, Button calls $120.

Turn: ($560) 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $204.6 (All-In)</font>,

[Bukem_]

If you are going cr, go all in. Your bet is too small.

[QueenFortune]

I would rather push the flop.

[DirtDog]

So you guys think that check raising all in on the flop is the ideal line here? Would anyone care to clue me in on why check raising all in on the flop is better than the line I took?

[Parlay Slow]

this is not good (paired board)

[Gregg777]

[ QUOTE ]
Would anyone care to clue me in on why check raising all in on the flop is better than the line I took?


[/ QUOTE ]

It puts villain to a tougher decision on the flop before he is committed, and you have twice the odds of hitting your draw.

Or another way to put it, both your fold equity and pot equity are dramatically decreased on the turn.

[JFB37]

[ QUOTE ]
So you guys think that check raising all in on the flop is the ideal line here? Would anyone care to clue me in on why check raising all in on the flop is better than the line I took?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not sure there is consensus that it is ideal but if you are going to raise, all in is better than the line you took.

The reason is that you are going to throw the rest in on the turn anyway (as you did) and Villain is going to call pretty much no matter what because he will be getting better than 3:1 on that call. So, c/r all in has more fold equity. Of course, if you get called you are you could well be dead.

[highhustla]

How many of you guys muck this preflop? OP's post looks like a pretty good example of the reverse implied odds of calling a raise w/ KJ OOP.

[Lucky]

I dont like it.

If flop is not paired/there is no cold caller of PF raiser when he bets flop, then good spot. Here are two scenarios:
(assume 400 eff stack)

Flop is 9c 2s Qc (80 in pot)
MP bets 80; button calls, hero????

or same flop
MP bets 80, button folds, hero????


In first scenario, i prob go allin, you're only in bad shape against set from button.

In second scenario, if you and MP had started with 400, I like a push every time. you're 46% against his AA, 42% if he has the Ac.