Sweating Cards = Dead Hand?

[bapazian]

I witnessed this hand recently at a home game, a 1/2 NL 100 Max 100Min. Tag player open raises for 10 3 players to the flop including the fishy host who is somewhere between LAP and LPP.

TAG bets 20 and Host shoves for 70 total.

TAG tanks completely and after a while looks about to fold. He lifts his hand up and shows it to the player sitting to his right (Host is on his left). The player he shows the cards to says "I know exactly what I'd do with those" with some confidence.

After this happens the TAG thinks for 25seconds or so then calls. Immediately after the TAG says call the host flips saying that only one person can be to a hand and the hand is dead and he scoops the money.

TAG player starts to argue but immediately (and smartly so imo) decides that the host is right.

Since the host was a fish and it was a good game that will continue to be good in the future I think the tag made a good decision by not arguing in this relatively small pot.

I am curios though as to what an official ruling would be on this hand if it occurred in the casino though. Comments ar welcome!

[psandman]

The hand is not dead .... thats idiotic.

The ruling would be the player called and the hand continues.

The player who made the comment might be warned to keep his mouth shut (keep in mind that his comment is so innocuous that it might not even get a warning -- after all his comment doesn't actually tell the player to call or fold)

Host was so out of line here its ridiculous aside from the stupid decision (and why a player gets to make decisions about hands he is in is beyond me) if this sort of thing is going to be a dead hand then why does he wait for the player to act before making this decision?

In fact if I was in this game I would wait for an opportunity where the host was thinking about a decision, then say to the host something like "you have to call, your getting pot odds" and then scream "your hand is dead one player to a hand." see how he likes it.

[82Steve]

showing cards never rules your hand dead. not even in a tournament. in a tournament you might get a penalty AFTER the hand, but thats another story. in a ring game, you can show one or both cards once its HU, you just have to make sure, that after hand everbody had a chance to see the cards (show-one-show-all).

As to one-player-to-a-hand: the player made a wise decision and did not state anything leaning towards a specific action, therefore did not influence TAG's decision. It is sort of borderline cuz he would have better said "sorry, cant tell you anything" but this is definately never a reason to kill a hand.

[pfapfap]

Did the host take the money from the person who called, or just the pot from before that point? If the former, then the host robbed the guy. If the latter, he also robbed him, just not for quite as much.

Showing to your neighbor is such a risky move, but it doesn't kill your hand. When I deal at a cardroom, usually people do this as they're folding, but I try to be very careful there and make sure that nobody gives any input. The comment by the neighbor is suspect, because how well do these people know each other? What does the comment mean? When someone shows me cards, I usually just give a "yeah, tough decision" eyebrow raise, pursed smirk, head nod kind of thing. Sometimes it is a tough decision, but usually it's a fish chasing against the odds. I react the same regardless.

[Bulldog]

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why a player gets to make decisions about hands he is in is beyond me

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Beyond me too.

[Lottery Larry]

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why a player gets to make decisions about hands he is in is beyond me

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Beyond me too.

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Let it go, boyo.

[bapazian]

[ QUOTE ]
Did the host take the money from the person who called, or just the pot from before that point? If the former, then the host robbed the guy. If the latter, he also robbed him, just not for quite as much.


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Said host had the TAG pull back his call and Host scooped the rest.

This is a central MN homegame in a hick town if that sheds any light on why this happened.

[dhg223]

I had my hand ruled dead in a Planet Hollywood tourney. The button reraised my preflop raise and it was just us two. I had AQ unsuited and tanked. Ended up flashing him the cards to try to get a reaction since a call would have committed me. I was a little suprised when the floor ran over and said hand is dead..

[Photoc]

I've seen this ruling in several smaller casino/card rooms. Intential exposing of a hand can result in a penalty up to and including a dead hand. Basically, don't divulge the contents of your hand ever. I've seen many hands killed while playing because of stuff like this, in tournaments. Cash games are different.

[Erick12]

I vote dead hand. "I know what I'd do" is advice on the hand, though a little obscure. He's saying the decision is easy, go with the obvious choice and don't overthink it. If he had a strong hand, call and forget about the other guy having a monster, or if the hand is weak, toss it and forget about snapping off a bluff.

Its a little tenuous, but it does look like: showed the hand to 2nd palyer ->verbal statement by 2nd player ->statement lead to an action by first player.

Multiple people in one hand = dead hand. If the story is accurate, the player did change his play based on what the other guy said. That is a serious problem.