How to play this KK Vs 2 TAG???

[futuredoc85]

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I don't think pushing is necessarily the best idea. If the villian is a TAG, reraising in the SB, his range of hands is not huge. This seems like a way ahead, way behind situation to me, where a massive push all-in will fold TT, JJ, or QQ, but will get called by AA or AK. I just call the flop, and possibly the turn if a heart doesn't come and it's not too expensive. This isn't a very strong line to take, but that's what you get for not RR KK PF.

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nope look again

[Gordon Scott]

How did we get 2 folds between the SB and the BB?

[RiverDancer]

Well, if he has AK you have 9-10 outs and you're getting called. If he has AA you have 6 outs and are dead to the board pairing. If he has any other hand in his RR range out of the SB you are way, way ahead and he is drawing to a maximum of 2 outs. I know it's not the traditional WAWB situation, but it has the same logic IMO. I call down and allow the villian to bet the worse hand (if he has the worse hand). The hero has enough chips that pushing this flop with no fold equity (won't be getting any better hands to fold), will only be getting alot of chips in the pot bad, or pushing off a hand that is almost dead to his.

[futuredoc85]

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Well, if he has AK you have 9-10 outs and you're getting called. If he has AA you have 6 outs and are dead to the board pairing. If he has any other hand in his RR range out of the SB you are way, way ahead and he is drawing to a maximum of 2 outs. I know it's not the traditional WAWB situation, but it has the same logic IMO. I call down and allow the villian to bet the worse hand (if he has the worse hand). The hero has enough chips that pushing this flop with no fold equity (won't be getting any better hands to fold), will only be getting alot of chips in the pot bad, or pushing off a hand that is almost dead to his.

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a) he wont cal 100% w/ AK since he will have 0 hearts in his hand b) pushing now is the only way you get paid if another heart comes

[RiverDancer]

a) If he's good he will, I'm going on the basis this is a good player.

b) Sure, pushing on a flush draw is one way to get paid off if you suck out, but it doesn't make it EV+. Getting all your chips in when you have no fold equity (IMO) and only have a draw heads-up is not a winning formula. Nothing wrong with hitting a flush and not doubling up. Nothing wrong with showing down KK and seeing it was winning all along.

[threads13]

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Well, if he has AK you have 9-10 outs and you're getting called. If he has AA you have 6 outs and are dead to the board pairing. If he has any other hand in his RR range out of the SB you are way, way ahead and he is drawing to a maximum of 2 outs. I know it's not the traditional WAWB situation, but it has the same logic IMO. I call down and allow the villian to bet the worse hand (if he has the worse hand). The hero has enough chips that pushing this flop with no fold equity (won't be getting any better hands to fold), will only be getting alot of chips in the pot bad, or pushing off a hand that is almost dead to his.

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a) he wont cal 100% w/ AK since he will have 0 hearts in his hand b) pushing now is the only way you get paid if another heart comes

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How often would you estimate he would call with AK here?

[RiverDancer]

Well, considering the hero called a raise and a RR cold in the BB, it's pretty easy for the villian to put him on a decent sized pair or AK (this is again assuming that the villian is good, the hero is good, and both of them know the other is good). Now, the villain has to know that hero didn't flop a flush here, because he would have folded any two hearts PF (the ace of hearts is exposed, so AK hearts is out). QhKh or JhQh would be a very loose call for the hero to make and villian probably isn't concerned. Similarly, the villian probably isn't worried about a small set like 333 or 555 since that would be an even looser call. The only hand that villian is really scared of here is AK with the K of hearts. This would give the hero a freeroll to beat him. However, if I'm the villian I will take that chance and make the call 100% of the time given these reads. There are simply too many other hands (like KK, or QQ) that he is ahead of lay it down. Just my opinion.

[Tofu_boy]

that's 1 of my biggest problem lately. Laying down all the hands with good odds to call. No wonder my winrate only 2BB/100 ... [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]
Thanks all for the help I'll keep adjusting my game. [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

[HAL PHIPA]

IMO he is always calling AK here if we shove. If he has AQ w/o the Qh though he might fold that. MP3 could also have us beat but he almost always folds anything less than AK when we shove. Its really close on the flop but, I dont hate calling because we are getting an OK price given that we will be ahead some and Villian will give up on the turn. Also AQ may give us a free river card fearing we have AK.

One thing to consider is that a shove isnt always a bluff as sometimes QhQx or JxJh may call. It would be pretty sick to shove and have MP3 fold Ax and then win showdown UI vs. QxQh.

edit: I kind of contridct myself here but basically just dont fold because calling and shoving are both +ev. Im not sure which is more +ev though.

[CanSpoilU]

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a) he wont cal 100% w/ AK since he will have 0 hearts in his hand b) pushing now is the only way you get paid if another heart comes

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