200PLO TP + flush draw overaggressive line?

[jipster]

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Raising TO 30 or 35 is a very small raise, it is not 3/4 of the pot. There is 21 in the pot, one guy bets 12, another calls, you can raise it up to 69 here. If it had been heads up, you could raise to 57.


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i sit corrected [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

in my defence flip flop stated raise TO 30-35; this would be almot a 'half pot' bet (21 +12+12+12 = 57 plus the 18 to 23$ raise)

I would only make this play deep stacked, when my oppoenent has at least 200$ left; i notice the BB has 218$ pre preflop but i'm unsure as to whether villain is SB or BB.

again i wouldn't make this play every time.

I agree with 2handed on some of his sentiment; it is a marginal play but i think it turns a -ev call or push into a potential +ev; which is good poker. There is no hard and fast way to play this spot; hence the interesting thread [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

happy hunting

[Big Dave D]

Clearly calling the flop is better, however the fact they both calls makes the raise ok. The turn bet is very likely to be called, often by people who think they are trying to outdraw your straight. Certainly the number of guys who can pass a set in that spot is a number approaching zero. And just occassionally, you will get a timid straight in there too. So the free card on the turn is OK.

In all, this feels like a NLHE style of play.

gl

bdd

[Flip-Flop]

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Heh.
This is why I don`t like commenting on hands where reads and some history on the vilians is not mentioned because it means everything.


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Sure, a really good read could vindicate raising the flop, but if this is anywhere near your standard play in this spot remind me never to stake you.

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Lol.
I`m 100% sure you can`t afford to stake me pal.

Has anyone at those stakes even heard of a concept of "protecting a hand"?
I can`t stop laughing at posts that put any of the 2 vilians on a set.
I mean..is it normal for people to offer you free cards when they flop sets and str8s at 6-max PLO on stars?
If it is then I understand and will try not to post so much.

[2handed]

I do think that once you raise this spot and get a call you do need to push here a lot on the turn, but I don't think that it is the situation you want to put yourself in by raising the flop, particularly multiway. Heads up the turn becomes an easy push after you get called on the flop.

[2handed]

"I mean..is it normal for people to offer you free cards when they flop sets and str8s at 6-max PLO on stars?"

I guess by this you mean you aren't putting the flop caller before you on a set or a straight since he is "giving a free card" by not raising. So i guess you are raising a naked 66xy on this board when someone donks into you as well and there are players to act behind you? I see ppl call flop bets with sets and even a straight without redraws all the time at levels from .50-1 to 5/10 on several different sites. And i don't think it is a major leak. Rather I think it IS a major leak to be raising all the time in multiway pots on an obvious straight board with a one way draw. But it is your money, so if you want to gamble then whatever.

Anyway what levels and sites are you regularly playing at that allows you to transcend us common folk?

[Flip-Flop]

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I see ppl call flop bets with sets and even a straight without redraws all the time at levels from .50-1 to 5/10

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I doubt you`ll see this at SH 5/10 much and when you do you are most likely looking at the donator.
It`s bad poker.
Highest stakes PLO I `ve played are 20/40 ( live , Europe )

[2handed]

against some players this may be fine, but I still think against most decent players raising the flop without the straight or a somewhat better draw than just a nfd is not the optimal play against unknowns. Then again good players arent typically donking the flop for half the pot. If hes is weaktight enough to call, and then checkfold a set, then fine nh, or nice read should i say. But I think raising is overplaying the hand and is burning money if you plan on always folding to a reraise. Like dave said, this strikes me as a very NLHE style play.

btw flat calling with a set or a naked straight is not bad on this flop when villain donks light, with such hands as draws and 2pair on this board. You would be calling with the intention of hopefully getting him to bet again on the turn and feel committed so you can stack off.

[OrrLives]

I usually use the term 'donk bet' for a bet of ~1/3 pot or less into a preflop raiser. The SB bet out 60% of the pot, which (to me) says he has a decent hand but not the nuts. But a bet like this can mean many things... it really depends on the person who does it.

About the hand, I can't really add that much more than what has been said already. I prefer a call on the flop because you may only be drawing to the nut flush draw.

As played, check the turn. I don't think you can get them both to fold here. Even against just the SB, he would be getting over 2-to-1 and might call with just two pair here.

[Vinetou]

Results: BB had the nut straight, and I think he played it bad. He had Ad8dKs7c. SB had 8cAcTd8s. He definitely play bad. They both called me.

[Elrazor]

SB played the nut straight pretty much as i would in this spot - lead out on the flop and wait for a safe turn before comitting. the only thing i would do differently is lead out on the turn. i think its pretty standard to call the flop, especially against 2 players