Why are racks allowed on some tables and not on others?

Force1 · #1 02-16-2006, 02:10 PM

Why is it that as soon as you sit down at a LL table they make you unrack your chips ASAP. However, I routinely walk past the higher limit games and all the players have racks on the table and don't appear to be leaving soon.

steamboatin · #2 02-16-2006, 02:29 PM

Bad Beat jackpot tables often have rules against racks on the table to discoursage someone from hiding cards under the rack.

AngusThermopyle · #3 02-16-2006, 02:48 PM

[ QUOTE ]
the higher limit games

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In a lot of places, there are rules, and then there are Rules.

Terry · #4 02-16-2006, 03:01 PM

As well as hiding cards, a rack can hide a big denomination chip or $100 bill. An angle shooter will declare himself all-in with a draw or a medium strength hand when his rack is empty, but pull out the hidden money should he happen to make the nuts.

steamboatin · #5 02-16-2006, 03:10 PM

Good point.

Last year before the Gold Strike changed hands, I was playing $10-20 and from previous trips playing $3-6 I was certain that cigars were strictly off limits anywhere inside the poker room. I had witnessed a regular get in trouble for smoking a cigar over by the slots.

I told the dealer to deal me out because I wanted to go smoke and he told me to keep the cigar over by the slots and it would be okay and it was.

wslee00 · #6 02-16-2006, 04:23 PM

hm - i always thought the point of not having the rack was to speed up the action - it takes a while for a donk fumbling for his chips inside a rack

Force1 · #7 02-16-2006, 04:26 PM

[ QUOTE ]
hm - i always thought the point of not having the rack was to speed up the action - it takes a while for a donk fumbling for his chips inside a rack

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I am not asking why racks aren't allowed on the table. I am asking why they are allowed at 10-20 (at Casino AZ at least) and why there aren't at 3/6 tables. I think Steamboatin' hit it on the head as the 10-20 is a non jackpot game I believe.

Dynasty · #8 02-16-2006, 04:41 PM

[ QUOTE ]
hm - i always thought the point of not having the rack was to speed up the action - it takes a while for a donk fumbling for his chips inside a rack

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That's the reason almost every Vegas card room gives. It has nothing to do with hiding cards or chips.

It's allowed at higher limits because those players are more experienced and now how to handle their chips. Usually, they have some chips out of the rack anyway.

esch · #9 02-16-2006, 04:47 PM

I was under the impression that it's more a "does it really matter" kind of issue. On the higher limits, the chip stacks can get pretty deep even with just a typical buy-in (e.g. 2 racks of red for 20/40). On the lower limits, a lot of folks don't get much beyond their buy-in and having a bunch of 3-6 players fumbling with racks might actually make an impact on the flow of the game - even if they have to keep out a working stack. It's not rock solid reasoning, but it seems like enough of a reason for some places to have that kind of rule in place.

I don't know about the bad beat jackpot reasoning since the casino is going to check the deck a couple of times before awarding any jackpot. Would be hard to explain an extra ace or missing trey.

Terry · #10 02-16-2006, 09:28 PM

Very true that speeding up the game is also a big part of it, and that most players in the bigger games tend to be more adept at handling chips.

Also, a guy with several thousand in chips on a $30/60 limit game is no threat for pulling the old "all-in with a weak hand but pull out the hidden money with the nuts" trick. I've seen it more than once in $3/6 and $4/8 games, though, and once in a $10/20.

As for hiding cards, there is no extra card ... a card or is held out from the deck that is in use and hidden under the chip rack ... that's why the dealer is supposed to count down his deck once in a while. It's a very big part of the reason Razz is almost non-existent today; holding out an Ace was way too big an advantage ... and too much temptation for many players.

These things don't get talked about much by casino employees and bosses. Most of them don't know much about it, and those who do know tend to keep it to themselves for fear of teaching and/or tempting others to try them out.

I assure you that bad beat jackpots have been taken down by holding out cards as well as by cold decking. I've seen the surveillance tapes of some who got caught.