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  #161  
Old 11-20-2007, 06:30 PM
Mark1808 Mark1808 is offline
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Default Re: Weather Channel Founder says\"Global Warming is Biggest Scam in His

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Who said anything about a dictator? I think decisions like this should be left in the hand of competent decision makers, proven leaders and the scientific experts of their respective fields.

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How shall we resolve disagreement as to who these people are.
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  #162  
Old 11-20-2007, 06:31 PM
xorbie xorbie is offline
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Default Re: Weather Channel Founder says\"Global Warming is Biggest Scam in His

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Who said anything about a dictator? I think decisions like this should be left in the hand of competent decision makers, proven leaders and the scientific experts of their respective fields.

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How shall we resolve disagreement as to who these people are.

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The collective wisdom of the MASSES - elections [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]
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  #163  
Old 11-20-2007, 06:31 PM
Mark1808 Mark1808 is offline
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Default Re: Weather Channel Founder says\"Global Warming is Biggest Scam in His

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This is interesting. How often is it necessary to allocate resources ineffeciently to acheive suitable levels of education, health, lack of violence, freedom, and/or cultrual acheivments. Could you give me an example?

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That's difficult to say because resource allocation is far easier to quantify than these other aspects. I'm not sure what sort of example you want (practical or theoretical), but I would support subsidizing education, subsidizing public health, subsidizing the poor, etc

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Your making the claim apparently that sometimes resources have to be allocated ineffeciently to acheive suitable levels of education among other things. If that's the case I would think that you could provide some reasoning behind that. Give me a hypothetical.

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I think we may be speaking past one another. The reallocation of resources is always inefficient because you pay people to do things that create no wealth (manage the allocation). I believe this reallocation is necessary. Do you disagree or not?

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Middle men create effeciency. They help move products to market in a more cost effective way.
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  #164  
Old 11-20-2007, 06:34 PM
wacki wacki is offline
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Default Re: Weather Channel Founder says\"Global Warming is Biggest Scam in His

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btw, something contructive could be building nuke plants rather than solar tech. and by building nukes I don't mean gov building nukes, I just mean gov rewriting regulations so that private industry can do it, cause they can do it, they have done it, and the only reason they still don't do it is basically because the gov has told them not to do it via regulations and stuff.

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The worlds most cited expert on nuclear technology says the extremely high initial investment costs required to build nuclear power plants is what is preventing private industry from taking chances. Nobody wants to spend a billion dollars on a power plant when a coal plant costs 1/10 as much. With fossil fuels the fuel is the major cost. With nuclear the plant itself is the major cost. I'd like to know what government regulations you are talking about that are preventing private industry from investing in nuclear.
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  #165  
Old 11-20-2007, 06:36 PM
xorbie xorbie is offline
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Default Re: Weather Channel Founder says\"Global Warming is Biggest Scam in His

adios,

Long post, so I won't quote it. I made my point in my last post - reallocation is inefficient in terms of wealth creation. It takes money from people who might use it to create more capital wealth, and reallocates it in a way that might create mores "social wealth" if you will. Having publically funded education, stipends to the poor, publically funded health care (to some degree), and so forth. Those are my examples, and that's my point.

As an interesting aside, studies have shown that the human brain makes trade offs between efficiency (or total wealth) and inequity. It's different for each person, but in comparing various allocations, both of these things are considered and weighed.
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  #166  
Old 11-20-2007, 06:39 PM
Mark1808 Mark1808 is offline
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Default Re: Weather Channel Founder says\"Global Warming is Biggest Scam in His

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Who said anything about a dictator? I think decisions like this should be left in the hand of competent decision makers, proven leaders and the scientific experts of their respective fields.

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How shall we resolve disagreement as to who these people are.

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The collective wisdom of the MASSES - elections [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

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What if I vote for W because he is going to lower taxes and he lowers taxes but starts a War. What if I vote for Gore to invent the internet but he erronously thinks global warming is a problem. You elect people, you don't elect how resources should be allocated.

People who are concerned about generating greenhouse gases are talking steps to reduce. If enough people think it is a problem green house gases will be reduced.
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  #167  
Old 11-20-2007, 06:45 PM
wacki wacki is offline
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Default Re: Weather Channel Founder says\"Global Warming is Biggest Scam in His

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Just to point out a few things about the semiconducter. First of all it's silly IMO to believe that if we had no government research we wouldn't have the semiconducter.

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This is a crystal ball argument and an absolute eternity statement which gives it a double whammy. Not touching this.

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Second of all computer technology advances were brought about by the private sector.

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True but when computer technology was in it's infancy the vast majority of novel breakthroughs were not from private industry. Your statement does not conflict with anything I've said.

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Third of all we don't know that government resources were allocated in the most effecient manner in developing this technology.

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I've never witnessed any research firm, private or public, that allocated resources in the most efficient manner. To expect this level of perfection is to expect consultation from God himself.

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It may not have even been close to the most effecient allocation of resources. In fact it's possible that resources were allocated so poorly that the private sector would have come up with this technology far sooner. Don't know, probably not, but a possibility.

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Research in one area harms the progress of research in a completely independent entity? I'd love to see a historical example of this occurring. Either a principle investigator can prove his case to an angel investor/venture capital firm or he can't. In my experience that's pretty much the only thing that matters in a tech startup.
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  #168  
Old 11-20-2007, 07:03 PM
wacki wacki is offline
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Default Re: Weather Channel Founder says\"Global Warming is Biggest Scam in His

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There seems to me to be an implicit assumption that efficiency is very important. Clearly it is important, but only one of many factors that is used to take the measure of society. Even if government funded research is less efficient somehow, that isn't necessarily the be all and end all of the situation.

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Again, I really dislike discussing things in absolutes. In the Pharmaceutical industry this is certainly not the case. Big Pharma spends more money on hot 20 something saleswomen than researchers. Even among the scientists and statisticians there are running jokes among certain Big Pharma companies that they don't get anything done because they are too busy having meetings with the suites. In academia in drug discovery the opposite is true as the principle complaint is that researchers are overworked and underpaid. Things may be different in other fields but my experience in the east coast and in the midwest is consistent. The only exception I've seen is when somebody I know went to Australia to work for a smallish bio-tech company. He said he works much longer hours. The confounding factors there is that he is not at a big company and he is no longer doing basic research but more business stuff. Small companies tend to be more cutthroat than big biotech companies. He is also earning more than twice the pay but he is not working twice the hours.

Again, other fields may be different, but I do know that in my field researchers do far more work for far less pay in Academia. My general opinion of academic bio-tech research is that it's fascinating and highly educational but the compensation and pay is extremely depressing. While adios's experience has apparently been vastly different I do wish we would get off of speaking in absolutes. It's simply misguided IMO.
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  #169  
Old 11-20-2007, 07:11 PM
xorbie xorbie is offline
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Default Re: Weather Channel Founder says\"Global Warming is Biggest Scam in His

wacki,

I agree with you completely. Academia-centered research is an area that is often gnored by free market advocates, despite the fact that results seem to historically be pretty good.

I'm simply saying that even if that weren't the case, wealth efficiency isn't the be all and end all of life.
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  #170  
Old 11-20-2007, 07:12 PM
xorbie xorbie is offline
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Default Re: Weather Channel Founder says\"Global Warming is Biggest Scam in His

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People who are concerned about generating greenhouse gases are talking steps to reduce. If enough people think it is a problem green house gases will be reduced.

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Do you at least accept the fact that there might be bad results? Unlike the market, the laws of nature don't really respond to individidual preferences.
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