Absolute Soulreading/Rigged thread #3

[nath]

Okay, can we focus on the most interesting thing that's happened today-- namely, that AP apparently has decided there was no wrongdoing, and continues to stonewall all of us (while maintaining a facade of mere incompetence, to deflect from their possible involvement)?

So if they're not going to do anything about it, we need to get through to them. Take it to the media? Maybe. I don't know. But we need to not let this rest. We need to keep the heat on Absolute.

At this point the cheating is obvious. What's disturbing is Absolute continuing to treat us with the generic customer-service line, like we're idiot crackpots. We need to start threatening their livelihood.

[teddyFBI]

[ QUOTE ]
<font color="red"> Just got off the phone with Adrian, who claims to be the senior most manager in the Absolute Security Department (upon asking to speak to his superior at the end of the conversation, he claims to report directly to the owners). He claims that the investigation is complete, and that they have cleared all accounts of any wrongdoing.

Seeing as I didn't think it would be mental-energy-efficient to get into the entire hole-card-viewing thing with him, since we only have statistical evidence (the likes of which there's no way this guy could grasp -- just trust me on this one), I decided to instead just focus on ONE part of the wrong-doing &gt;&gt; one that no security rep or investigator could plausibly deny: the chip-dumping. A reminder that THESE ARE 3 CONSECUTIVE HANDS where DOUBLEDRAG and ROMNALDO capped every street playing $200/$400 heads-up, only to have DOUBLEDRAG fold for one bet on the river. These were just 3 HHs from an entire session like this where DOUBLEDRAG allegedly dumped over $200,000. IF ANYONE HAS MORE HANDS FROM THIS SESSION PLEASE PM ME.

Anyway, Adrian (top Absolute security guy, don't forget) said that he had looked at those hands, and that although it "looked" like chip-dumping, they had determined that it was not.
</font> Sry for the red font. I needed something to indicate that this post contains actual info rather than an expose on what 2p2ers might have gimmick accounts.

[/ QUOTE ]

Just bumping my above post for those who did not see it.

Also, I'll make a proposal here, although I will be the first one to say that i give this next to NO chance of succeeding, but I'm making the suggestion here nonetheless because I feel very strongly about it (kind of like the political candidate who runs in an election knowing he has no chance of winning, but doing so because he believes in doing all he can to represent his constituents in good faith.)

Given how incredibly damning the evidence is in this case, and how saddeningly incompetent their customer service response is (denying even that the above chip-dumping had taken place), and given furthermore that there are a handful of high-volume posters who have been swindled out of over $100,000 collectively, I propose the following:

Put a sticky at the top of every single forum titled something like "WARNING: Unsettling Activity at Absolute Poker", and have a statement such as the following (which is just off-the-cuff, but you it'll give you the gist of what I'm talking about):
<font color="blue">
"There have been several very troubling reports recently about security issues at Absolute Poker, including allegations that certain players have exploited a hack that allows them to view opponent hole-cards, and the documented chip-dumping of over $200,000 of those stolen funds. It should be noted that nothing has been proven (other than the chip-dumping, which is documented in hand-histories) and that there are certain posters that remain skeptical about the allegations of cheating. Nonetheless, the evidence presented is among the most damning ever produced in this type of case and can be seen here &lt;link to the mega-threads&gt;.

Irrespective of the ultimate truth of the allegations, however, most troubling of all is the response, or more accurately NON-responsiveness of the Absolute customer service and security team who have steadfastly refused to admit that there was any wrong-doing, and even went so far as to DENY the chip-dumping, of which there is convincing evidence in the form of hand-histories &lt;link to them here&gt;.

It is not the role of the 2+2 Discussion Forums to take an official stance on controversial matters such as these, and we encourage every reader to evaluate the evidence for him- or herself. What is discouraging in this case, however, is Absolute's lack of concern for some of its highest-volume players, and unwillingness to provide an explanation for some of the most suspicious activity ever documented in online poker. Naturally, it's understandable (and moreover we encourage!) sites to keep private certain aspects of thier fraud-detection techniques so as not to provide would-be crooks with a "blue-print" of how to exploit their security measures. Nonetheless, we believe that there is some "safe" middle-ground to be found, whereby Absolute might provide enough information about the investigation to persuade the 2+2 community of the integrity of their security measures without compromising their efficacy. At the end of the day, the interests of Absolute Poker and the 2+2 poker-playing community are one and the same: a safe and secure playing environment for its players. The recent forum discussions, while controversial, have that very interest in mind, and we would like to see a more public demonstration from Absolute that they are as committed to the integrity of their games as are the players."
</font>
Bottom-line, if you don't think that a sticky at the top of every forum in the most widely-read poker bulletin board in the world will get Absolute's attention, and persuade the likes of Adrian (their security manager) that his attempts to stonewall and deny, deny, deny will not be tolerated, I respectfully disagree. Like I said, I understand that the odds of this actually happening are slim to none, but I think it's the right thing for me to at least put it out there.

(EDIT: looks like my long post was timely with Nath's just above &gt;&gt; the name of the game now is to get through to them -- I'm not demanding restitution of the $6,000 stolen from me, nor do I want Adrian's head on a stake. What I want is information about how this could have happened, and why we should be comfortable that it cannot happen again. If we let this thing get swept under the carpet, it's OUR fault. The NYT Freakonomics op-ed was a good first-step. Let's keep it up.)

[NobleNobleNoble]

"How can this be true? I agree that maybe the risk of running into collusion is the same in a B&amp;M, but there is absolutely no risk in a B&amp;M that you will be playing with someone who is wearing special X-ray vision donk-goggles that allow him to see through the back of the cards and know the hole cards of everyone else at his table. That is a completely different level of a "crooked game." "

Um look at this dude...
http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2-2007020419,00.html

crooks in England made +-$500 000 using a sleeve cam that was able to see everyones hole cards as they were dealt.
So B&amp;M isnt that much safer IMO.
Apologies 4 being off topic again

[ZOMG_RIGGED!]

I think you're gogn to have to much better than that if you want AP do anything. Hell, i know about the cheating and its not going to stop me from playing there. If you wan tto stir up some muck its oging to have to go beyond 2+2 for AP to care

[adanthar]

[ QUOTE ]
Hell, i know about the cheating and its not going to stop me from playing there.

[/ QUOTE ]

I seriously want to know: if you play high stakes, what calculus are you using to determine this is a good idea?

[teddyFBI]

[ QUOTE ]
I think you're gogn to have to much better than that if you want AP do anything. Hell, i know about the cheating and its not going to stop me from playing there. If you wan tto stir up some muck its oging to have to go beyond 2+2 for AP to care

[/ QUOTE ]

I disagree. I'm not going to overstate how big 2+2 is in the poker world -- it's a pretty small, niche thing and I'd wager that 95% of online poker players have never heard about it. Nonetheless, if I own / ran / was associated with Absolute Poker and I saw that sticky at the top of every 2+2 forum, I would make it my sole mission to get to the bottom of it PERSONALLY. We're a small minority in the overall poker scene, but I think you underestimate how influential we are.

[ZOMG_RIGGED!]

[ QUOTE ]
I seriously want to know: if you play high stakes, what calculus are you using to determine this is a good idea?

[/ QUOTE ]

i obviously dont play high stakes

[adanthar]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I seriously want to know: if you play high stakes, what calculus are you using to determine this is a good idea?

[/ QUOTE ]

i obviously dont play high stakes

[/ QUOTE ]

in that case, why play at AP when every other site has a better bonus/rakeback deal? heh.

[ZOMG_RIGGED!]

[ QUOTE ]
I disagree. I'm not going to overstate how big 2+2 is in the poker world -- it's a pretty small, niche thing and I'd wager that 95% of online poker players have never heard about it. Nonetheless, if I own / ran / was associated with Absolute Poker and I saw that sticky at the top of every 2+2 forum, I would make it my sole mission to get to the bottom of it PERSONALLY. We're a small minority in the overall poker scene, but I think you underestimate how influential we are.

[/ QUOTE ]

But who are you informing by doing this? 2+2ers who already have access to this information. The only way for AP to feel threatened is for there to be a chane this would hurt them somehow. Repeatedly telling the same people something they already know wont do anything, especially when a lot of them a) are to dumb to beleive it or b) arent effected

[FellKnight]

[ QUOTE ]
Okay, can we focus on the most interesting thing that's happened today-- namely, that AP apparently has decided there was no wrongdoing, and continues to stonewall all of us (while maintaining a facade of mere incompetence, to deflect from their possible involvement)?

So if they're not going to do anything about it, we need to get through to them. Take it to the media? Maybe. I don't know. But we need to not let this rest. We need to keep the heat on Absolute.

At this point the cheating is obvious. What's disturbing is Absolute continuing to treat us with the generic customer-service line, like we're idiot crackpots. We need to start threatening their livelihood.

[/ QUOTE ]

My feelings are that they escalated this war with today's stonewall [censored]. It's up to us to escalate it back to them. The (poker) media (to start with) seems like a pretty reasonable next step.

Fell