NL50: A flush on paired board, slightly deep, the ol'min raise

[Specialwon]

Have just 20 hands on villain at 10/0/0.25, for what that's worth.

Usually the ol'check-minraise on the turn from this kind of villain means pure nuts. But there are a bunch of hands he can have here, right?
Poker Room skin
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.25/$0.50
10 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: $76.75
Hero: $63.50
UTG+2: $23.35
MP1: $50.45
MP2: $44.65
MP3: $52.45
CO: $27.75
Button: $116.60
SB: $49.45
BB: $102.70

Pre-flop: (10 players) Hero is UTG+1 with A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
UTG calls, <font color="#cc0000">Hero raises to $2.5</font>, 7 folds, BB calls, UTG calls.

Flop: J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] ($7.75, 3 players)
BB checks, UTG checks, <font color="#cc0000">Hero bets $5</font>, BB folds, UTG calls.

Turn: 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] ($17.75, 2 players)
UTG checks, <font color="#cc0000">Hero bets $10</font>, <font color="#cc0000">UTG raises to $20</font>, Hero gets ready to pull the trigger then realises that board is paired</font>,

[ranka]

I would push. Villain is unknown and maybe he ch/minraise with KJ, AJ, QJ or smaller flush.

If you don't want to pull the trigger then check the turn instead of bet.

[AlexB182]

These spots suck but in this spot I'm not sure, I'm tempted to at least call him down here. Thing is: there are a lots of hands that he could have here that we beat (AJ-JT, smaller flush) and only one hand that makes sense here that has us crushed, namely 44. (88 wouldn't have called on the flop probably and J8 wouldn't have called the PFR I guess).

[Brimstead]

call him down. as alex said, the only hand he calls pfr and flop bet with that has you beaten is 44.... everything else in his range you are ahead of.

he is a set miner with those stats, so for that reason i wouldn't raise, but just call him down and hope to see AJ, JT, or a smaller flush

[ranka]

[ QUOTE ]
call him down. as alex said, the only hand he calls pfr and flop bet with that has you beaten is 44.... everything else in his range you are ahead of.

he is a set miner with those stats, so for that reason i wouldn't raise, but just call him down and hope to see AJ, JT, or a smaller flush

[/ QUOTE ]

Why calling &gt; shoving? If you call and the river is fourth diamond, then you can't get any value from Jx type hands.

EDIT: And these stats are quite worthless, only 20 hands.

[keepitreal]

dont forget to factor in that he probably doesnt have u on a made flush after your PFR and cbet (more often than not its going to be an overpair...aka ur suited AK is well disguised).

factoring that in, i think you have to at least call the reraise and check-call the river.

[AlexB182]

I did not say that calling &gt; shoving but that I def want to see a SD here. Plus if he has something like JT stuff calling might indeed be better because a shove might allow him to get away from his trips on a 3flush board while he might fire again on the river in case a brick comes off.

[RapidEvolution]

This is a tough spot, but I think calling turn and calling/leading river is the best line. Our hand has a ton of SD value and we don't want villain to get away from AJ/KJ/QJ or even a hand like 9dTd. I think either he has 44/88 (and it doesn't matter what we do because I really don't see us folding) or he has AJ/KJ/QJ/7d8d and these hands might fold to a shove, but they'll definitely either lead river or call a bet if we make one on the river.

[Specialwon]

Thanks much for the advice guys, I ended up pulling the trigger anyway on the basis that my hand was pretty well disguised and that I thought trips his most likely holding.

None of you mentioned the hand he actually had, which was JJ for quads which no way could I put him on but which makes sense in retrospect.

I thought this was particularly interesting because that was the second time in the space of 300 hands that I had been stacked by broadway pairs limp-called UTG, the previous hand was QQ which made an overset on the turn to my 666. Is anyone else running into this much?

[Berge20]

Make the note.

I've seen a lot of that type of passive PF play from the 10/2's of the world lately. Either limp-calling or cold calling a raise with big pairs.

Funny b/c they seem scared PF, but then they often felt on the flop.