Preflop betting sizes and implied odds...big question guys

[Cell40k]

I'm very confused.....a whole lot of people advocated stacking off with TPTK in a raised pot against an unknown in a 100B cap game.....but if we're only betting 3-4xBB preflop, aren't we giving HUGE implied odds that we will never beat in the long run?

Correct me if i'm wrong, I'm a beginner.

[sapol]

most people who advocate stacking off with TPTK are losing players

[coolmoedee]

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most people who advocate stacking off with TPTK are losing players

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[pzhon]

The hope is not to give huge implied odds. The hope is that your opponents are putting their stacks in with worse than TPTK.

If you are playing for pennies, or the lowest live stakes available, this hope may be justified, and the gains will cover the times you pay off a set. If you are playing for moderate stakes, then you will probably be behind far too often, and when you are ahead, it usually will be against a decent draw, not a worse made hand.

By the way, TPTK is much stronger if it is AK on an ace high flop than A6 on a 654 flop.

[Niediam]

75% of Professional No Limit Hold'em Vol. 1 is about this topic.

[Small Fry]

As Pzhon pointed out there is a huge range when you say TPTK. Stacking off when you have top pair and it's a 9 (or a 6) is much different than when you have AK with either A or K on the board.

Here are a couple more variables: position, board texture and opponent.

In position or if you're the aggressor you can control the flow of the hand a little better. There's a big difference between moving all in and calling an all in. Board texture can be tricky. A board with multiply draws can be tough to give up on against opponents who play their draws very aggressively. Big bets on drawless boards can mean big trouble. Which brings me to how your opponents play. The more you know about their playing style the better you can narrow their hand range.

Just a few things to think about.

I think getting it in with a pair of Aces or Kings is absolutely correct under some circumstances. Other times it is totally wrong.

And if you always call your stack off with any top pair, or push it all in, then I'd say your correct. You're giving players a great shot at some huge implied odds (they know you'll stack off) plus moving all in (I'm assuming it's a decent size overbet on the flop) on a board of T,7,3 when you have A,T almost guarantees the only players that call you have you beat.

[SellingtheDrama]

Here's how I generally look at a TPTK (or most other hands I consider 'medium') - if I bet x, what hands are reasonable for the other player in the hand to call me with?

If I make a huge overbet, I can reasonably only expect to get called by strong hands such as sets or top two.

If I make a smaller bet, more hands are expected to call, including those that I beat (aka value betting).

Also remember - top pair is one pair. Take a look at the hand rankings chart, one pair isn't too high on the list. It's also always vulnerable to almost every card in the deck on subsequent streets. I'd consider 'playing a good one-pair hand' to be the hardest element of NLHE to learn, because there are just so many scenarios. If you play these hands/situations well, you'll be very profitable...if not, you will be a losing player.