Razz 8/16 - fold this anywhere?

[jbrennen]

Razz ($8/$16), Ante $1.50, Bring-In $2 (converter)

3rd Street - (1.50 SB)

Seat 1: xx xx 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___raises___raises
Seat 2: xx xx A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___raises___calls
Seat 3: xx xx Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___brings-in___folds
Seat 4: xx xx Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 5: xx xx 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___folds
Hero: 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___completes___calls___calls
Seat 7: xx xx 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 8: xx xx 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___folds

4th Street - (13.75 SB)

Seat 1: xx xx 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___raises
Seat 2: xx xx A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___calls
Hero: 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___bets___calls

5th Street - (9.88 BB)

Seat 1: xx xx 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___raises
Seat 2: xx xx A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___folds
Hero: 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___bets___calls

6th Street - (13.88 BB)

Seat 1: xx xx 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___bets
Hero: 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___calls

River - (15.88 BB)

Seat 1: xx xx 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] xx___bets
Hero: 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___calls

Total pot: (17.88 BB - $286)


I believe this was the most I've ever lost on a single Razz hand, but fortunately I recovered to end up with a decent profit on the night...

Anybody think this should be folded on 3rd? 4th? Sure, my draw is a little dead on 3rd, but with all the raises flying, there's a good chance that all of our draws are a little dead. On 4th, I can't see folding given the pot size and the fact that the opponents caught an 8 and a Ten.

Would check/call on 4th or 5th be preferable to bet/call?

As played, 6th is an easy call and on the river, I'm getting better than 16-to-1 pot odds. The penalty for a bad fold on the river is so much huger than the penalty for a bad call that I had to err on the side of calling.

[Sp00n]

c/c 5th

[Praxising]

[ QUOTE ]
Razz ($8/$16), Ante $1.50, Bring-In $2 (converter)

3rd Street - (1.50 SB)

Seat 1: xx xx 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___raises___raises
Seat 2: xx xx A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___raises___calls
Seat 3: xx xx Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___brings-in___folds
Seat 4: xx xx Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 5: xx xx 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___folds
Hero: 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___completes___calls___calls
Seat 7: xx xx 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 8: xx xx 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___folds


[/ QUOTE ]
I don't have the discipline to fold this on 3rd in a cash game yet, but I would have in a trny. This is a bad 6 without one of your cards showing, not a one. Then you have two raisers. Fold 3rd. Fold 5th to the raise. You saw someone fold a 7 and this guy isn't going anywhere with his made 85 which you can't beat with an 8 of your own. I got real tired real fast of losing money calling pots I knew I'd lost because of how much money is in the pot.

Shoot. Shoulda taken my own advice earlier today. These hands are just the temptation of the poker-devil. Resist!

[roggles]

You should definitely not fold it on 3rd. You realize that A23 vs 456 is totally 50/50 right? This is without counting dead cards... but I can't think of any situation where one should fold 456 on 3rd.

[jbrennen]

[ QUOTE ]
Fold 5th to the raise.

[/ QUOTE ]

If I give him credit on 5th for being perfect in the hole (A-2), I have 29% equity. I only need about 17% equity to profitably call it down (or 19% if I just check/call instead of bet/call). Once that deuce hits my board on 5th street, there's no way I'm not seeing 7th street.

I could maybe understand a fold on 3rd, 4th, or 7th. Not on 5th or 6th.

[jbrennen]

[ QUOTE ]
You should definitely not fold it on 3rd. You realize that A23 vs 456 is totally 50/50 right? This is without counting dead cards... but I can't think of any situation where one should fold 456 on 3rd.

[/ QUOTE ]

If both of them have A23, I'm WAY behind in this hand (16% to 42% to 42%). The dead cards make that much of a difference.

But more realistically, if I give them each credit for a 3-card six, I'm behind by 28% to 36% to 36%.

[Andy B]

Maybe fold to the double raise on third, but I don't. Beyond that, I don't see anything I'd do differently.

[RustyBrooks]

Unfortunately I think bet-calling 4th gives away your hand. With the hand you are representing you would gladly bet-3bet and call a cap.

On 5th, Seat 1 who raised you showing 83 is going to do the same with 835. If you did it to get ATT to fold, I wouldn't have bothered.

Call me crazy but I might have given up on 4th. I don't think betting there is awful but you've repped a big hand and been raised, this is going to be expensive.