The Military and Armed Conflict

[Thug Bubbles]

Given some recent posts by Nielso, I'm now curious what Anarchists (and others) here think of the military as an idea, and a reality and what they think of armed conflict. So I'll start with a series of questions:

<ul type="square">1. What do you think of people who join the military, and why?

2. Do you think armed conflict is sometimes unavoidable?

3. What avenues can one take if they wish to help in an armed conflict on a soldiering level?

4. What do you think of private military contractors?

5. What do you think of private security forces? (emphasis on "forces" and not a department store security guard)[/list]While I can understand and disagree with some positions about government and military as a structure, I cannot understand a hatred of the soldier. I ask these questions because I believe that armed conflict is inevitable and if one wishes to help in a very direct way the Military is an excellent avenue to take given the vast resources it has. We need to look no further than Rwanda, Somalia, and other times in history when ideology compelled a group of people to slaughter another group. No ammount of diplomatic intervention will change the fact that people needed to pick up a gun and defend their home and life.

I am not arguing that absolution of a nationalized military would create a vaccum; certainly people would come together to solve these issues in some manner, but currently there seems to be no incentive to create private security forces that would have stepped in these situations, the exception seems to be private contractors that still only provide ancillary support for the existing military structure, rather than taking on a conflict alone.

To "serve" your country a willful submission to the national populus, through a medium of governmental policy and military dicipline. This is what I can respect. When one looks to the Coca-Cola helpdesk monkey with contempt because his company employ's slave labor is assinine. Anger towards the Shoemaker because Nike makes deals with genocidal rulers is misplaced. I see hateful comments towards soldiers a similar light.

The military follows orders from policy makers who gauge the support of the country and ulitmately need their vote come election, so the Military by proxy is serving the people. Yes, it's flawed, and yes, it can have disasterous consequences, and may not be as efficient as a privatized system, but these are all arguments for the puppet master and his strings, not the puppet.

The method to deploy and use the soldiers may be quite flawed, but the concept is still valid. Some may think that even the concept is nefarious and evil, so to those I ask the above questions.

[NewTeaBag]

Hmmmmmmmm. Very good OP.

Me have many thoughts on this topic. But, ALAS, I have to be going out to enjoy the free market of Phuket nightlife.

I'll weigh in laterz (soberlike) but do look forward to the responses.

[ThaSaltCracka]

[ QUOTE ]
1. What do you think of people who join the military, and why?

[/ QUOTE ] This is a difficult question to answer because people join the military for different reasons. Some people don't have a whole lot of options in life, and joining the military provides them with a chance to have a life.

Others join because they had family members that served, so they feel compelled to join.

Others join because they want money for school, via ROTC or the GI Bill.

Others join because they are into the soldier thing, and the military is a perfect outlet for them.


So basically what I am saying is, you can't truely have an all encompassing view on people who join the military.


[ QUOTE ]
2. Do you think armed conflict is sometimes unavoidable?

[/ QUOTE ] Yes.

[ QUOTE ]
4. What do you think of private military contractors?

[/ QUOTE ] Quite frankly, I find them reprehensible and they lead to massive conflicts of interest. I can't fathom how something like this Cheney/KBR/Halliburton/Iraq war contracts could possibly go down in any other industry.

[Moseley]

[ QUOTE ]
Hmmmmmmmm. Very good OP.

Me have many thoughts on this topic. But, ALAS, I have to be going out to enjoy the free market of Phuket nightlife.

I'll weigh in laterz (soberlike) but do look forward to the responses.

[/ QUOTE ]

Back in 1975, I could get a girl for the night for $5.00 and a hotel room for $5.00 and a brick of Thai sticks for $5.00. What's the going rate now?

For those of you who don't know: A brick is 20 sticks of Thai pot, and a stick of Thai pot in 1975 in the states cost $20.00.

[NewTeaBag]

[ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
4. What do you think of private military contractors?

[/ QUOTE ] Quite frankly, I find them reprehensible and they lead to massive conflicts of interest. I can't fathom how something like this Cheney/KBR/Halliburton/Iraq war contracts could possibly go down in any other industry.

[/ QUOTE ]

Before I run off to the nightclubs, I'll just throw in:
I was offered a "job" as a private security contractor in Iraq.
The money on offer was mindblowing and totally taxfree for a 6mo stint.
I turned it down for several reasons:
1) I've seen and done enough killing to last many lifetimes
2) I was lucky enough to be 100% morally certain that those I killed were deserving(well perhaps thats too strong a word but along those lines)
day in the desert
3) Despite (2) I still feel like evertime you kill you also kill a piece of yourself
4) I'm not interested in being a mercenary (which is pretty much what the job description is despite the nice "private Security Contractor" title)

[ThaSaltCracka]

yes, it is most certainly being a mercenary.

[Nielsio]

[ QUOTE ]
<ul type="square">1. What do you think of people who join the military, and why?

2. Do you think armed conflict is sometimes unavoidable?

3. What avenues can one take if they wish to help in an armed conflict on a soldiering level?

4. What do you think of private military contractors?

5. What do you think of private security forces? (emphasis on "forces" and not a department store security guard)[/list]While I can understand and disagree with some positions about government and military as a structure, I cannot understand a hatred of the soldier. I ask these questions because I believe that armed conflict is inevitable and if one wishes to help in a very direct way the Military is an excellent avenue to take given the vast resources it has. We need to look no further than Rwanda, Somalia, and other times in history when ideology compelled a group of people to slaughter another group. No ammount of diplomatic intervention will change the fact that people needed to pick up a gun and defend their home and life.

I am not arguing that absolution of a nationalized military would create a vaccum; certainly people would come together to solve these issues in some manner, but currently there seems to be no incentive to create private security forces that would have stepped in these situations, the exception seems to be private contractors that still only provide ancillary support for the existing military structure, rather than taking on a conflict alone.

To "serve" your country a willful submission to the national populus, through a medium of governmental policy and military dicipline. This is what I can respect. When one looks to the Coca-Cola helpdesk monkey with contempt because his company employ's slave labor is assinine. Anger towards the Shoemaker because Nike makes deals with genocidal rulers is misplaced. I see hateful comments towards soldiers a similar light.

The military follows orders from policy makers who gauge the support of the country and ulitmately need their vote come election, so the Military by proxy is serving the people. Yes, it's flawed, and yes, it can have disasterous consequences, and may not be as efficient as a privatized system, but these are all arguments for the puppet master and his strings, not the puppet.

The method to deploy and use the soldiers may be quite flawed, but the concept is still valid. Some may think that even the concept is nefarious and evil, so to those I ask the above questions.

[/ QUOTE ]



'Serve your country' means 'serve the ruling class'. The state is a criminal gang that holds millions of people hostage and extorts them and brainwashes them into obediance.


If you are a cop or a soldier then you are a goon. You have been bamboozled, you have sold your soul.





Sadly, many find out too late.

[Nielsio]

[ QUOTE ]
3) Despite (2) I still feel like evertime you kill you also kill a piece of yourself

[/ QUOTE ]


That is so true.

Humans believe in universal morality. It's in their genes. It's undeniable. If at any time you hurt someone else, your own humanity suffers, and with it your capacity to be happy and to have natural emotions of joy.

[Copernicus]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
1. What do you think of people who join the military, and why?

[/ QUOTE ] This is a difficult question to answer because people join the military for different reasons. Some people don't have a whole lot of options in life, and joining the military provides them with a chance to have a life.

Others join because they had family members that served, so they feel compelled to join.

Others join because they want money for school, via ROTC or the GI Bill.

Others join because they are into the soldier thing, and the military is a perfect outlet for them.


So basically what I am saying is, you can't truely have an all encompassing view on people who join the military.


[ QUOTE ]
2. Do you think armed conflict is sometimes unavoidable?

[/ QUOTE ] Yes.

[ QUOTE ]
4. What do you think of private military contractors?

[/ QUOTE ] Quite frankly, I find them reprehensible and they lead to massive conflicts of interest. I can't fathom how something like this Cheney/KBR/Halliburton/Iraq war contracts could possibly go down in any other industry.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why is "Cheney" in that string? Halliburton received more no bid contracts during the Clinton Administration than Bush's. We will be paying for the consolidation of the defense industry caused by misguided spending of the "peace dividend" for decades.

[ThaSaltCracka]

Cheney is the former CEO of Halliburton, why wouldn't he be in that string?