Match Play - Giving Putts

golfnutt · #1 11-13-2007, 02:04 PM

I was playing a match play tournament against a person I really don't like. I was kind of tight on giving putts. On hole 14, with the match all square, and me in for bogey and him putting for par I made him putt one that was probably just inside the leather. He missed it!

One of the other guys in the group said after word that I was tight on giving putts. I said there is no way I am giving a putt that he had a chance to miss to automatically beat me on the hole. He even asked the caddy for a read on the putt.

It was a club match and they are supposed to be friendly, but it is still competitive. Plus, the point of golf is to get the ball in the hole, not get it close. I sometime hate this grey area of giving putts. In my Saturday fivesome, we just say all putts in the leather are good (which still leads to issues since our leathers are different and does it have to be all the way in).

tuq · #2 11-13-2007, 02:24 PM

Cue tons of traditionalists/golf nits coming to your defense saying how dumb gimmes are, a miss is a miss, etc. Standard.

I dunno though, the thing is I would hate for a hole to be won/lost by something like that. It's like when Olazabal missed a yip-length putt against Tiger in a playoff at Torrey Pines a year or two ago, Tiger just sort of looked down like WTF was that, what a crappy way to win. It was short enough that Tiger probably would have given it to him in match play.

The people who do NOT get putts from me are the gimme beggars, the ones who are head cases and always asking for putts that they would rather not have to putt. I may be a head case at times but I never, ever ask for a putt to be conceded.

brettbrettr · #3 11-13-2007, 02:31 PM

"In the leather" means?

Meh, if its someone I like and its friendly, I might give him a put here or there. I don't play match play though so it doesn't come up.

golfnutt · #4 11-13-2007, 02:39 PM

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It's like when Olazabal missed a yip-length putt against Tiger in a playoff at Torrey Pines a year or two ago, Tiger just sort of looked down like WTF was that, what a crappy way to win. It was short enough that Tiger probably would have given it to him in match play.

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I thought you made a mistake here and meant John Daly. Same thing happened in the playoff in San Francisco if I remember. A win is a win though. Obviously, you would like to win a certain way, but that is life..and golf!

[ QUOTE ]
The people who do NOT get putts from me are the gimme beggars, the ones who are head cases and always asking for putts that they would rather not have to putt. I may be a head case at times but I never, ever ask for a putt to be conceded.

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Oh man, we have one of those in my group. Asks if it is good. My standard response is to say if it is in the leather, it is absolutely good.

And he is always trying the 'both good' routine when we are two feet away. He did that on 18 last Saturday! I said I have other bets and that isn't fair. He proceeded to miss his and I made mine.

Yeah, those types bother me.

tuq · #5 11-13-2007, 02:48 PM

Yeah, when I wrote Olazabal I also had Daly in mind too. But I more distinctly remember his expression at Torrey Pines. It was clear he would have preferred that J.M. made that putt so he could win in a less messy fashion.

golfnutt · #6 11-13-2007, 02:59 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Yeah, when I wrote Olazabal I also had Daly in mind too. But I more distinctly remember his expression at Torrey Pines. It was clear he would have preferred that J.M. made that putt so he could win in a less messy fashion.

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His expression was pretty much the same. Put his hat over his head and was in shock. Especially since Daly is such a great putter.

Hmmmm....Tiger is pretty damn competitive (I should I know...I beat him [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] ) He will win anyway he can (legally). I think he would prefer to win in a grand fashion, but if you gave him the choice of winning it when a competitor misses a small putt vs the chance of losing going to another hole, he will go with the former.

JTrout · #7 11-13-2007, 03:02 PM

My joke of a reply to anyone that asks if a putt is good,
"If it's long enough to make you nervous, you need to putt it.
If it's short enough that you're not worried, then tap it in."

black knight · #8 11-13-2007, 03:26 PM

There are a combination of factors that go into how far my 'gimmie circle' is in match play.

1. How likely are they to reciprocate? If I start giving 3', are they always going to give them to me? If not, then my circle tightens.

2. How well are THEY putting? If they're missing at least 15% from 3', my circle might tighten. BUT,

3. How well am I putting? If I'm putting really well, my circle might tighten (unless they're equally good from short range, cuz then giving putts saves time and makes for a 'nicer' match). If I'm not doing well from that range, then if they'll reciprocate, I'll widen my circle to 4' maybe.

Mostly, I see gimmies in match play as a way to get a slight edge by figuring out how to go about it slightly better than your opponent...but it can only ever be SLIGHT, cuz if it's a fairly big edge, then it's going to be obvious and you'll be a dick and no one will want to play with you.

golfnutt · #9 11-13-2007, 03:49 PM

And another tactic is to give all shorts putts early and then make them putt long ones near the end of the match.

HDPM · #10 11-13-2007, 04:26 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Cue tons of traditionalists/golf nits coming to your defense saying how dumb gimmes are, a miss is a miss, etc. Standard.

I dunno though, the thing is I would hate for a hole to be won/lost by something like that. It's like when Olazabal missed a yip-length putt against Tiger in a playoff at Torrey Pines a year or two ago, Tiger just sort of looked down like WTF was that, what a crappy way to win. It was short enough that Tiger probably would have given it to him in match play.

The people who do NOT get putts from me are the gimme beggars, the ones who are head cases and always asking for putts that they would rather not have to putt. I may be a head case at times but I never, ever ask for a putt to be conceded.

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually in this case I think a traditionalist would be the opposite of a golf nit. IMO the traditionalist would/should not be nitty in that it is the spirit of the game that is paramount and the result of the competition is secondary, plus the preference of match play to stroke play by hardcore traditionalists. Some of this actually starts touching on what amateurism is. I give putts somewhat liberally because I like fast play and sportsmanship more than I like winning some amateur match. If it somehow costs me the $47 merchandise prize or $2 bet I don't care. (That doesn't mean a 4 footer with the match all square even if they talk about 4 footers as tap ins on TV) I will stop giving putts if somebody is a total ass or cheats or something. Even then I might give very short putts to keep things moving.

One small thing, I used to play in this twilight league where you could give putts, but only the individual could do it because two people from the same team would play 2 singles matches in a group with 4 players. (Not a fourball where a player can concede for the team) One guy from my team wouldn't give putts, mainly from inattention or cluelessness rather than nittiness. He would be looking off in the sunset while his opponent was trying to see if a one footer in my line was good. Invariably my line would get trampled while one clueless 300 pound guy made his one footer standing on my line while my clueless teammate was zoning out. Drove me nuts. I had to ask him to start conceding 3 inch putts on my line but he wouldn't pay attention. He was a slow player too naturally.