50NL KK facing river b3bai

[Genz]

he should've c/r'ed as a bluff. like this, he had to figure you were committed and it's unlikely that he thought that you'd think that he has to know that and that you would conclude that he is raising for value and thus makes you fold (got it? like 4th level thinking [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]). Would you have called a CRAI? Assume you bet $9, he pushes his $49. Do you call? Assume he raises to $25. Do you call?

[MrGrand]

if i check turn i def just call river
as played you have to fold because this is never a bluff or worse hand
however i think i like betting turn any opinions on this?

[tomonbass]

IMHO the turn check is horrible....

You cant give free cards in poker at any level and you need to protect your hand against this drawy board with a nice value bet... pot controls great on safe boards here your asking to be rivered, any card could make a hand here..

I bet turn and probably if called check the river if given the chance..

As played I probably fold... if your read is right a weakish TAG doesnt make a $9 bet without that jack...

Once Villan shoves run away as fast as you can...
And that reraise on the end looks like spewage to me ...

[blah-blah-blah]

genz i would probably call any raise if he checks river to me. what hand could he conceivable check three times, especially after i check back the turn, that has me beat? mrgrand u r wrong that this is never a bluff. does everyone really think that my raise only gets called by Jx? doesn't pfr, c-bet, check turn look super weak? especially since i checked behind on the turn.

[Genz]

I acknowledge that you severly underrepresented your hand. And I might be persuaded that AQ, KQ will call a minraise here. But a serious raise? Your underrepresentation has mainly the effect that villain will bet weak hands because he thinks you're weak. That doesn't mean that he puts you on a mere bluff and calls away his stack when you come out of the closet and scream "LOLOTRICKEDU!!!"
If you underrepresent your hand to induce a bet, it's often the case that a raise is only called when the bet was actually meant seriously, i.e. when you are beat. So it's most profitable over the long run to pick off those bluffs and value bets by worse hands and don't put your stack on the line by raising a one pair hand on a somewhat scary board.
His line looks like he missed a c/r on the turn. You obv. didn't know that he'd push if you raised, but if you raise here, you should think about if you can really stand a push. And I don't think so. So I wouldn't raise in the first place.

[citizenwind]

As I understand it, checking the turn in position "for pot control" is usually if you have a hand you wouldn't mind seeing a river or showdown relatively cheaply, allowing you to re-assess on the river and not be stuck playing a big pot with something like TPMK or Ace with a weak kicker, but still giving you the option for bluffing or betting / raising for value.

In this case, especially with a LAG image, you should be looking to play as big a pot as possible. From the flop and on, you should be planning on the best way of getting your stack in by the river. If he had a better hand and there wasn't a chance to get away, oh well.

As played, you can't raise the turn because when you're raised, you're almost always calling behind or occasionally folding a better hand for the wrong reason. Don't let yourself get into either sticky situation without a better read on your opponent. Fold.

No, a weakish tag won't call a river raise with a Q, and certainly won't raise you with one.