small ball at 5-10$ sngs????

PhilBeans · #1 09-01-2007, 03:01 AM

I've been running bad today so i switched up my strategy late in a 5$ sng on bodog. I min bet and raised alot and constantly underbet the pot. Both players were even angry about it. I won the tournament by picking them to death with good and bad cards.I've never played like this before but it seemed to work well against micro limit lucktards. I never lost a big hand but always got paid off when i hit. I stole a ton of pots and just ran it over. I made bigger and smaller bets and occasionaly pushed but tried to keep the pots small mostly. Any thoughts on this?

malnek · #2 09-01-2007, 03:14 AM

its all about adjusting optimally against your opponents. small ball wont work in a bubble situation where stacks have <=15bb. but by all means if you're deep enough and believe that this is the most effective way of exploiting your opponents.

PhilBeans · #3 09-01-2007, 03:19 AM

We were 3 handed when i started it and all pretty even in chips. Blinds were 75-150 with about 5k in chips. I guess my opponents were weaker than usual but it was something I have never tried. I was really surprised to have any success with it. Meybe it was more of a case of the situation and long term results would be -EV? I am gonna experiment with making smaler bets for the rest of the night, It will be interesting to see what happens...

allaboutheu · #4 09-01-2007, 03:28 AM

I used to play this way a long time ago before I understood optimal sng play. That was also in the regs not turbos. I found that against bad players or one's who just don't really know how they should be playing this strategy seems to work. However against good players or one's who know optimal strategy this type of play you are talking about will get killed.

Therefore I guess if you use it, just know ahead of time who your playing against ie. will he shove over your minraise every single time etc etc.

PhilBeans · #5 09-01-2007, 03:40 AM

I havent been running into that at ALL. people will call a 1/3 pot bet than fold for 1/4 on the turn every single time.Its amazing how they have no concept of pot odds at all. they only reraise with monsters. Simple. I think this will turn out to be +EV since it seems to be working in both my current sngs, of course it not an absolute....

memento_mori · #6 09-01-2007, 06:03 AM

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I havent been running into that at ALL. people will call a 1/3 pot bet than fold for 1/4 on the turn every single time.Its amazing how they have no concept of pot odds at all. they only reraise with monsters. Simple. I think this will turn out to be +EV since it seems to be working in both my current sngs, of course it not an absolute....

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The problem with smallballing is that:

1) it demands more attention, and therefore you can't play as many tables (and makes as much $$$)

2) its pretty easy to counterattack your smallball strategy in the late stages of a sng (RRAI etc.)

3) you are likely giving edges away on the bubble if you play smallball instead of the normal shoving strategy.

ymu · #7 09-01-2007, 06:47 AM

Not much to add, except that it may also be a bad habit to get into if you're planning on moving up. Developing an unusual strategy to exploit particular situations/types of opponent is +++EV, but only if you recognise that it won't work against other types of villain (especially better ones, in this case), or with different table dynamics.

PhilBeans · #8 09-01-2007, 06:49 AM

I agree it demands more attention but I only do 2 or 3 at once so it's pretty easy. At this level people just arent reraising in the late stages without a top 5 hand. I do mix this with shoving depending on what type of hands I have or position. I guess I'm playing my normal game just making smaller bets in relation to the pot. Seems to be doing me well I'm having a good night...

memento_mori · #9 09-01-2007, 07:07 AM

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I agree it demands more attention but I only do 2 or 3 at once so it's pretty easy. At this level people just arent reraising in the late stages without a top 5 hand. I do mix this with shoving depending on what type of hands I have or position. I guess I'm playing my normal game just making smaller bets in relation to the pot. Seems to be doing me well I'm having a good night...

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I don't really think it matters too much if you decide to smallball or play conventional sng strategy in 5$ and 10$ sngs on Bodog. Since you are posting here I assume that you have a better theoretical grasp of important poker concepts than your opponents, and that's pretty much all you need to beat small buy-ins.

BUT if you plan on moving up smallballing won't get you very far. The strength of playing a normal sng strategy is how hard is it to counterattack (sure you can adjust your shoving and calling ranges a bit against regulars, but thats pretty much it).

When a 1000$ sng is running you won't see Bigjoe or some other player starting to use a Daniel Negranu smallball strategy. Instead he will rely on knowing his shoving/calling math better than his opponents.

And that's exactly why it's such a powerful strategy, you can't really counter it - only try to master it better than your opponent.

RobMcB · #10 09-01-2007, 07:15 AM

"When a 1000$ sng is running you won't see Bigjoe or some other player starting to use a Daniel Negranu smallball strategy. Instead he will rely on knowing his shoving/calling math better than his opponents"

Does the rest of the forum agree with this statement? In the early levels? In the middle levels?