Universal Healthcare? Can it work? I'm doubtful...

[Inso0]

The whole concept of Universal Healthcare sounds great on paper. But can it work under government control?

In another thread that wound up getting hijacked, a supporter of HillaryCare made this statement when asked to provide examples of the government showing the ability to run things competently:

[ QUOTE ]
SCHIP, Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security, the entire K-12 public educational system (or are we sticking with only federal?), the WIC program, the state university system...and at this point it's only overkill.

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I have to say... I absolutely cringed at this list. Is this really the best examples that supporters can give?


SCHIP isn't so much a "system" as a policy, so I can't really comment aside from the fact that they do a terrible job of qualifying participants. The most recent example is where they had some kid read a speech on the radio to condemn Bush for refusing to expand their program. (Don't you like how they always trot out a child with some terminal illness or disability instead of arguing on merit?) Well, turns out this kid getting free healthcare from a program designed for low income children comes from a family living in a half million dollar house and making far more money than is reasonable to be considered for such programs.


Medicare, Medicaid -- Perhaps someone more familiar with these programs can comment on their flaws. But it seems to me that the pennies on the dollar that Medicare/Medicaid pays hospitals for their services is a reason my private insurance rates are so high as they try to recover costs.


Social Security - I can't believe anyone would tout social security as a success story. Without significant reform, this entire system will be completely insolvent and stop functioning within our lifetime. Not only that, but social security offers PATHETIC returns as a retirement plan for most people based on what they put into the system. It's simply a redistribution of wealth. A poor one at that.

The entire K-12 public educational system
-- /facepalm

It seems to me there must be a reason that people who can afford it, will invariably send their children to private schools to escape the hellhole that is our public school system. (I realize in some of the very upscale areas of our nation, there are exceptions to this public school rule)

My wife is a teacher at a public charter school in Milwaukee, Wisconsin. When she began teaching 4 years ago, she was handed 35 6th graders who had absolutely no concept of basic math principles, and could barely read at a 1st or 2nd grade level; much less use a standard 6th grade text book. Every year, our districts which are saddled with useless unions and many terrible teachers just keep pushing these kids through to the next grade because it's easier than actually addressing the problems they face. All teachers are not bad. But there are a lot of terrible ones that we cannot get rid of due to the unions that plague our government agencies. Our public school systems are wasting billions of dollars every year on idiotic programs and absurdly high teacher benefit packages that exist nowhere in the private sector. And you want these people running your healthcare?

I send my own children to a local private school and thank God for it every day.

And for those who will ask... no, my wife is not a union teacher. These charter schools are funded by the public district, but the teachers who work there are NOT a part of the union. So I don't get to benefit from the absurd contracts that the union teachers do.


The WIC program -- I have a sister in law who is on this program. She's a single mom with a college degree and has a job and can pay for her own damned milk and peanut butter, but instead she funnels all her money into a bank account under her daughters name to avoid getting kicked out of the program. At one point, she may have needed the help, but instead of getting out of it when she could stand alone, she chose to stay on the public dole. She has actually dropped off some of her extra food at my house for our 3 kids. This was absolutely infuriating to me as a conservative who is sick of paying people to be lazy. I'm not a hypocrite, and I told her flat out. If you don't need some of the stuff that's on your food stamp for that week, then leave it at the store.

We as taxpayers are donating millions of dollars to people like her because the system is clogged with so many levels of bureaucracy that it's impossible to fix. Instead of even trying to fix it, we just ignore it. What's worse... these broken programs are then inflated each year to "help" more "poor" people.

The state university system -- This one is just impossible to do justice to in a non-designated post. Saying our state universities are run efficiently is just so absurd that it's hard to know where to even start. I think I've made my points well enough elsewhere to be able to let you all just think on your own about how badly this government system is run. Just think about how much tax money is given to student groups and then get back to me. Where's the "separation of church and state" crowd when it doesnt involve Christianity?


...and at this point it's only overkill. -- Oh, but you forgot some excellent ones.

How about the DMV? You just waited in line for 4 hours to renew your drivers license. If the government can't get your picture taken in less than 4 hours, imagine how long you'll have to wait for a knee replacement or for heart surgery.

What about FEMA? You think Katrina was bad... just wait until your son gets diagnosed with Leukemia and you have to file your application for a treatment plan ahead of 500 other people looking for help from a limited government resource pool.




Now, I don't think for a second that our current system for healthcare is perfect. But going from the private sector to the public sector is NEVER the answer.

My solution? The first thing I'd do is find a way to stop the ridiculous settlements given in medical lawsuits. You make it less expensive for the doctors/hospitals to do business, and you'll see rates decrease significantly.


Look around the world, people. Universal Healthcare is failing miserably in places like Canada and the UK. Their citizens come to the United States for proper care. If we adopt their system, where will we go for ours?

[lozen]

Does it work perfectly? No Is it better than your current system? Yes

[zasterguava]

Interesting quote from Chomsky:
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Take, say, healthcare, one of the worst domestic problem -- most serious domestic problems; for most people, a major problem. I mean, it's the most inefficient healthcare system in the world, double the per capita cost of other comparable countries, some of the worst health outcomes, mainly because it is privatized. The public is strongly against it. For a long period the public has been in favor of some kind of national healthcare system.

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[vhawk01]

[ QUOTE ]
Does it work perfectly? No Is it better than your current system? Yes

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Why? It sounds horribly worse than our current system. But I guess if you say its better...

[Inso0]

[ QUOTE ]
Interesting quote from Chomsky:
[ QUOTE ]
Take, say, healthcare, one of the worst domestic problem -- most serious domestic problems; for most people, a major problem. I mean, it's the most inefficient healthcare system in the world, double the per capita cost of other comparable countries, some of the worst health outcomes, mainly because it is privatized. The public is strongly against it. For a long period the public has been in favor of some kind of national healthcare system.

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]


You can't just throw that quote out there without explaining what is included in the "cost" analysis of the system and what these "worst health outcomes" mean.

If lawsuit settlements for instance were included in our healthcare costs, then I think it would be impossible to not be top on the list.

Curing our infatuation with litigation in the United States would go a long way to better lives for a lot of people.

[lozen]

Amazing your telling me our CDN system is failing. Our system poor get treated same as rich. Unless rich want to go south and pay big and get immediate treatment. I have been around some serious health issues with friends and family here in Canada and treatment was quick and top notch. In the USA you would be same but broke. I think you have to blend both systems. Lets face it the rich will always get to the front of the Bus. Now Americans and CDN's are going to Thailand for top notch treatment

[lozen]

Let me add the biggest threat to healthcare systems is aging population and a fat population [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[TomVeil]

The issue is simply that prices keep spiraling out of control, less and less people can afford it, and even if you HAVE insurance, you can't afford to get SICK. So what's the point in having it in the first place? The whole system needs to be redesigned to keep costs down. If you can show that the private market can do that, then I'm all for it. I have my doubts about that, though.

[Dane S]

I just don't see how anyone could look at what our government is doing now and has done throughout history and think it would be a good idea to give them a few trillion more bucks for any reason.

[Inso0]

In Canada, the government is being forced to consolidate and specialize hospitals in order to keep costs under control. As a result, people are dying in ambulances because they have to drive past 3 hospitals to get to the one that has the facilities to treat their condition. This is not a problem in the USA.

You're right... each system has pros and cons. But the cons for a government run system here in the US far outweigh our current issues.

If you can't afford treatment, there isn't a hospital in the country who will refuse to treat you. Obviously, this does not apply to nose jobs and other elective things.

There are systems in place to take care of those who can't afford treatment. This is solving a problem we do not have.