What makes someone Upper rather than Middle class?

[luckyjimm]

One of my best friends is a mid-30s corporate lawyer who earns $200k+, is married to a barrister on a similar salary, owns a house in London, and went to one of the best private schools in London, the City of London School for Boys, After university and before he went into practice, he taught law at Oxford. He is from an English/American Jewish intellectual family. He says he's middle-class, not upper class. Funnily enough, according to the English view of the class structure I know what he means.

Another friend of mine, another corporate lawyer in his mid-30s, does not own any property - he rents a flat and lives alone. Until recently he was off work for two years off work due to alcoholism; during this period he had no income. Though he would never say it, he is clearly upper-class. He went to Eton and Christchurch College, Cambridge, and comes from a family with links to the military and to farming / landowning. He speaks incredibly slowly, with dignity, and a clipped upper class accent; even in his cheap clothes, you can see he has the bearing of an Etonian.

My view of what makes you upper class is very much based around where you went to school (in England that doesn't mean university), whether you have connections with the aristocracy, the right parts of the military, or your family were large landowners. It's not to do with how much money you earn in your current job.

Alan Sugar will never be upper class, and neither will the billionaire Philip Green, or Liam Gallagher. Tony Blair himself is middle class.

I can see the problem here. I have another "upper class" friend whose grandfather was an Earl and whose mother is a Lady, whose father comes from a banking dynasty and still owns several country houses and lots of land. But she herself has little money; she lives a bohemian lifestyle living with an artist and their baby in a two-up, two-down house in a poor area many miles from the city centre. In so far as she earns a living, she makes and occasionally sells vases. There's a trust fund she can dip into to buy big things. But does it really make sense to call her upper class, and say that a successful corporate lawyer isn't?

I just wondered how this kind of thing works out in America. What's the distinction between being upper middle and upper clasS?

[mmbt0ne]

What's the distinction between being upper middle and upper clasS?

It seems to be whether or not any of the people you know make more than you.

[luckyjimm]

I'm saying the opposite, it isn't about how much you make. It's where you're from not where you've got to.

[Shadowrun]

in USA, i think there are so few "aristocratic" families historically that here the difference isnt so much you family lineage but how much you earn and how much you spend.

[luckyjimm]

Okay so 50 Cent is really seen as upper class, and not just a working class / underclass guy with money?

[britspin]

A monied (or more properly privileged) background is a needed but not sufficient condition for being upper class.

You don't have to be wealthy to be upper class, but you can't stay "upper class" for long without money. After a couple of generations you'd soon stop being upper class.

On top of privilege and wealth, Class is defined by a whole set of subtle and obvious clues designed to define those who observe or are ignorant of them. These include education, style, "breeding" and (very importantly) accent and vocabulary.

As bernard Shaw said.. "It is impossible for an Englishman to open his mouth without making some other Englishman hate or despise him".

I think America doesn't have quite the same class system- because I think it's history as been made up of wave after wave of immigrants, so landed wealth has never had the chance to assert itself as socially superior to wealth creation.

[mason55]

you're talking old money vs new money

[mosdef]

If you think that your money makes you better than everyone else then you're upper class. If you don't you're middle class (or potentially lower class if you like NASCAR).

[luckyjimm]

Here's an excellent article from the Sunday Times last weekend (when they published their Rich List):

http://women.timesonline.co.uk/tol/l...le1719509.ece?
print=yes

You're right that a family's class can change quickly between generations; and also different siblings can have radically different circumstances. This is common amongst the aristocracy, though, where primogeniture can still be enforced. My friend's aunt, a Lady, lives in a little flat in Battersea, while her brother who inherited the estate owns a huge country house, lots of land, and in fact an entire seaside village in Devon! It was always the duty of upper class women to marry well, though, so the wealth of their husband would make up for them not inheriting.

Even with globalisation, all of this stuff still exists.

[WalkUpCondo]

[ QUOTE ]
Okay so 50 Cent is really seen as upper class, and not just a working class / underclass guy with money?

[/ QUOTE ]

We have a separate class for them.