2/4: QJo

soma_ · #1 04-28-2006, 03:50 PM

I've only tangoed with villain once. No showdown, but he was aggressive. Can't remember the exact line he took, but it definitely was tricky/unusual.

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool

Preflop: Hero is CO with J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
2 folds, Hero raises, 2 folds, BB calls.

Flop: (4.50 SB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, BB calls.

Turn: (3.25 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB checks, Hero...

It's been a while since I played SH LHE, and I'm completely lost on this turn.

jakeduke · #2 04-28-2006, 03:56 PM

Yuck. If you have a read on villian as tricky, you're going to see a lot of C/Rs here that you definitely can't call. So I guess you have 2 options - bet/fold trying to get a SD, or checking and hoping villian checks the river. Bet/folding seems crappy because the only conceivable better hand that will fold here is a K, and a tricky player probably isn't calling the flop w/ a K just to lay it down on the turn. I think I check behind and pray the river goes well.

Tuomash · #3 04-28-2006, 04:05 PM

I think you should bet/fold this turn. If villain calls the turn bet, do not bet the river, because obviously he is not going to fold.

F Paulsson · #4 04-28-2006, 04:14 PM

[ QUOTE ]
and a tricky player probably isn't calling the flop w/ a K just to lay it down on the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]
I'm not entirely convinced "tricky" can be safely assumed to mean "smart" without knowing his reasons for playing a hand in an unusual way. So, readless, I know that many players peel a 5SB flop with random overs, but happily fold the river. Doubt he'd fold an ace though.

soma_ · #5 04-28-2006, 04:19 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I think you should bet/fold this turn. If villain calls the turn bet, do not bet the river, because obviously he is not going to fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

Which hands would a bet fold? If I get raised, how many average outs do I have?

True · #6 04-28-2006, 04:21 PM

check and check/call river with improvment. I don't think you get a better hand to fold here, the pot is very small and you don't really win this with a bet enough, if you get c/r and are drawing live, you are giving up almost 1/2 a bet, sometimes more if you will get called on the river when you improve.

True

True · #7 04-28-2006, 04:21 PM

[ QUOTE ]

Which hands would a bet fold? If I get raised, how many average outs do I have?

[/ QUOTE ]

If you get raised here, you are never calling getting 4:1 and drawing dead a large number of times, this is a huge reverse implied odds situation.

True

jakeduke · #8 04-28-2006, 04:24 PM

I agree with your assessment, but by the turn the board is double-paired. Tricky doesn't have to mean smart for it to be bad for us on this board. Any maniac that raises w/ 72o here beats us if we bet/fold.

soma_ · #9 04-28-2006, 04:30 PM

[ QUOTE ]
check and check/call river with improvment. I don't think you get a better hand to fold here, the pot is very small and you don't really win this with a bet enough, if you get c/r and are drawing live, you are giving up almost 1/2 a bet, sometimes more if you will get called on the river when you improve.

True

[/ QUOTE ]

This is what mmbt0ne suggested before I posted. I'm in agreement so far.

F Paulsson · #10 04-28-2006, 05:56 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I agree with your assessment, but by the turn the board is double-paired. Tricky doesn't have to mean smart for it to be bad for us on this board. Any maniac that raises w/ 72o here beats us if we bet/fold.

[/ QUOTE ]
Good point. I hate this hand, now. Not how it was played, necessarily, just having been dealt it. Grrr.