All of this christian bashing is so ignorant and stupid.

[T_Money]

Here's a lovely quote from madnek or something:


"Because I don't think Christianity is about love. I think it's as far from that as can be. If the marine had run up to the sniper, ripped his arms off, and spent three weeks torturing him, would you have had the same emotional reaction? How about if he did it to the guy's whole family, while he watched, just to punish him? Now we're getting close to Christianity."

Really? It seems to me you haven't really done [censored] to find out what christianity is about. Oh wait, you're pulling this example from the Old testament. Hmm, yup refer back to your lack of research. Oh wait it musta been the crusades. Because I mean, there's no way some perverse men decided to twist and falsify "god's" word into something it wasn't in an attempt to get more worldly power. I mean, every christian ever was a perfect saint, and in fact, every christian ever claims this to be so.

Here's a question for you. Do you hate muslims like you hate christians (and please don't say you don't hate christians. If you don't hate someone who you consider to be the equivolent of a torturer who tortures and kills a man's family in front of him and then tortures and kills the man, then frankly, you're pathetic). Last time I checked, most "intellectuals" were making sure that the public understood that these "radicals" were not indicitive of the muslim community.

But ahh, christianity has shown itself to be violent and evil throughout history, therefore it must be stopped. So I guess if some evolutionists started blowing up churches it would be stupid for christians to "hate" evolution based on the action of a few radicals. But if like 60% of evolutionists started doing it, then they would be justified in hating evolution (notice I said evolution and not the evolutionist who did these terrible things). But whatever, carry on.

[Duals21]

If the people fond of bashing Christianity in this forum are at all influenced by Dawkins, Harris, etc. I would say they def. feel the same way about Muslims.

[Magic_Man]

Two comments:

1) It annoys me when people equate "evolutionist" with "atheist." There are plenty of ways to incorporate evolution into religous beliefs.

2) There is no way to (mis)interpret evolution to mean "you must blow up churches." However, there apparently is a way to (mis)interpret islam into "you must kill all infidels." Evolution does not tell us to act in any particular manner. Religion specifically dictates the proper way to live life, which in some cases can include killing nonbelievers. Even if fundamentalist Christians aren't doing it directly, they are doing it indirectly by stifling important cancer research. And taking away people's happiness by opposing gay marriage, banning online gambling, putting kids in jail for oral sex...the list goes on and on. A simple belief in evolution does none of these things.

[kurto]

Just a few thoughts-

[ QUOTE ]
Really? It seems to me you haven't really done [censored] to find out what christianity is about.

[/ QUOTE ]

Keep in mind many of the people criticizing Christianity were raised as Christians. You're only guessing that they don't know all about it.

[ QUOTE ]
Oh wait, you're pulling this example from the Old testament. Hmm, yup refer back to your lack of research. Oh wait it musta been the crusades.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm afraid I don't know what his example was. The Crusades though is a great example of what can happen with Christianity. They really didn't have to twist God's words. The old testament has no pretty barbaric rules that require no twisting at all.

[ QUOTE ]
Here's a question for you. Do you hate muslims like you hate christians (and please don't say you don't hate christians. If you don't hate someone who you consider to be the equivolent of a torturer who tortures and kills a man's family in front of him and then tortures and kills the man, then frankly, you're pathetic). Last time I checked, most "intellectuals" were making sure that the public understood that these "radicals" were not indicitive of the muslim community.


[/ QUOTE ]

Most people criticizing religion criticize all the theists. It might appear to you that Christians are singled out. That's most likely because there don't appear to be any muslims on this forum discussing their side of things. I can assure you that people aren't singling out Christianity. I'm pretty certain they dislike Islam too.

[ QUOTE ]
But ahh, christianity has shown itself to be violent and evil throughout history, therefore it must be stopped. So I guess if some evolutionists started blowing up churches it would be stupid for christians to "hate" evolution based on the action of a few radicals.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ouch. Now this is silly. There's nothing about evolution (its not even a religion) that would ever encourage people to do such an inane thing. Evolution is merely a theory of the progress of life. Unlike religion, it doesn't instruct people how to act or condemn non-believers to death. That's really more Religion's cup of tea.

Your last argument there is really nonsensical.

[Taraz]

I kind of agree with the OP's sentiment, although I think he got a little carried away.

I can see the disdain for fundamentalists who accept everything, question nothing, and reject thought. But I don't understand the hate for people who want a little spirituality and religion in their lives. I mean, maybe the popular conception of an omniscient, omnipotent God is bogus and a lie, but there are many interpretations of the different religious texts that are consistent with thought, reason, and science.

[kurto]

[ QUOTE ]
But I don't understand the hate for people who want a little spirituality and religion in their lives.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think most atheists hate theists. "Hate" is his choice of words.

And there is something wrong with it- look at our archaic laws, look at what's happening in our schools where people can't teach evolutionary science, where kids can't learn about sexuality, look at vaccines for STDs that are blocked by efforts from religious groups who think they're immoral.

How about just because we should pursue truth?

[ QUOTE ]
I mean, maybe the popular conception of an omniscient, omnipotent God is bogus and a lie

[/ QUOTE ]

What religions don't believe that that are being attacked that you're defending?

[ QUOTE ]
but there are many interpretations of the different religious texts that are consistent with thought, reason, and science

[/ QUOTE ] What interpretation of the Bible which has Jesus being born of a virgin and rising from the dead is consistant with reason and science? Which Bible do you have that doesn't describe creation as being magical? What version of the Koran have you read that doesn't command believers to kill infidels? etc. What exactly are you referring to?

[T_Money]

[ QUOTE ]
Two comments:

1) It annoys me when people equate "evolutionist" with "atheist." There are plenty of ways to incorporate evolution into religous beliefs.

2) There is no way to (mis)interpret evolution to mean "you must blow up churches." However, there apparently is a way to (mis)interpret islam into "you must kill all infidels." Evolution does not tell us to act in any particular manner. Religion specifically dictates the proper way to live life, which in some cases can include killing nonbelievers. Even if fundamentalist Christians aren't doing it directly, they are doing it indirectly by stifling important cancer research. And taking away people's happiness by opposing gay marriage, banning online gambling, putting kids in jail for oral sex...the list goes on and on. A simple belief in evolution does none of these things.

[/ QUOTE ]

First, the evolution was just an example and didn't really have anything to do with athiesm, christianity or anything, just something that I'm sure almost all nonbelieving people agree with (evolution that is). Secondly, you're right, there is no part of evolution that says to blow up churches. That's the point. However there definitely exist people who may decide that, for the "indirect ways" you mentioned above, churches are impeding progress and there is no other alternative than to blow them up and they will then claim that they did it to help evolution.

BTW, your also wrong on your comments about oral sex jailings and banning online gambling, etc. How you can blame christianity for that is ridiculous. Our government is supposed to be for the people by the people. ie, the voters who elected Frist, and the voters who elected the other people who voted for all the other bills you mention are to blame. Maybe they were elected simply because they were christian, but our government is set up to (and I know this is simplifying it too much) make the majority opinion law. You should have a beef w/ the govt and society, not christianity on those issues.

[madnak]

Yes, I despise Islam. Also, apparently I'm pathetic.

[madnak]

[ QUOTE ]
I kind of agree with the OP's sentiment, although I think he got a little carried away.

I can see the disdain for fundamentalists who accept everything, question nothing, and reject thought. But I don't understand the hate for people who want a little spirituality and religion in their lives.

[/ QUOTE ]

I believe spirituality and religion are inherently at odds. In those rare cases in which organized groups of people have been both religious and spiritual (sufis, kabbalists, etc) I think the internal conflicts have clearly manifested. This becomes less true of Eastern religions, which are much closer to eschewing dogma. However, I believe that spirituality is inherently personal and creative, and that therefore any dogma is fundamentally opposed to it.

[ QUOTE ]
I mean, maybe the popular conception of an omniscient, omnipotent God is bogus and a lie, but there are many interpretations of the different religious texts that are consistent with thought, reason, and science.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't believe that this is true of the Hebrew scriptures or of their derivatives.

[Taraz]

[ QUOTE ]

I don't think most atheists hate theists. "Hate" is his choice of words.

And there is something wrong with it- look at our archaic laws, look at what's happening in our schools where people can't teach evolutionary science, where kids can't learn about sexuality, look at vaccines for STDs that are blocked by efforts from religious groups who think they're immoral.

How about just because we should pursue truth?


[/ QUOTE ]

I'm all for fighting against fundamentalists who you describe. That stuff is ridicluous.

[ QUOTE ]

What religions don't believe that that are being attacked that you're defending?


[/ QUOTE ]

For one, there was that post earlier by John21 where he said that he believes the bible is a collection of fictional stories and that God is simply love and nothing more. He was jumped on and bashed for no reason.

[ QUOTE ]
What interpretation of the Bible which has Jesus being born of a virgin and rising from the dead is consistant with reason and science? Which Bible do you have that doesn't describe creation as being magical? What version of the Koran have you read that doesn't command believers to kill infidels? etc. What exactly are you referring to?

[/ QUOTE ]

The interpretation that looks as those stories as metaphors . . . the only way that you can intelligently look at those stories. It's pretty dumb to actually believe the bible as literal fact especially because it's so unnecessary. For example, I've met plenty of people who look at the resurrection as a metaphor for how Jesus's disciples were in mourning for several days and then decided to carry on his teachings. So his teachings were "raised from the dead" by his followers. I find it hard to believe that you've never heard this position.

By the way, you grossly misunderstand the Koran if you believe it says plainly that Muslims should kill all infidels.