Starting hand requirements question

[livecards]

I noticed that the starting hand rankings have been adjusted in Hold'Em Poker For Advanced Players due to today's game.

I searched the internet for additional info and found this website http://www.cs.cmu.edu/People/mummert/poker/
Based on their computer simulations, here are a few examples of the differences:

Group 2: they rank AK slightly higher than KQs

Group 3: they don't believe JTs belongs in this group but KTs does

There are significant differences in Groups 4-8. An example is the notion that A9s should be in Group 4 as opposed to S&M's Group 5.

What is the consensus in this forum? I'll use David's Hand Rankings in HEPFAP as opposed to those in Hold'em Poker. Also, are these rankings for both limit and no limit? Thanks in advance for any contributions to this thread.

P.S. Congrats to David's recent victory on the WPT. It was nice to see him win because my entire poker reading has been his books. I'll get to Harrington's, Caro's, and Brunson's books (just to name a few), but it seems to me that David is the premier poker author.

[monkover]

The hand rankings are just to get started. I can ramember David stated that in the beginning of his book anyway. Once you have played quite a lot you will stop thinking about the rankings. This as well happens when you start moving up the limits. You´ll have to start mixing up your game.
The differences you stated in your thread are very minor anyway... They only affect your EV slightly as opposed to your post flop play. So stop focusing on small differences that hardly affect you EV and start learning about post flop play. This is where youmake the big money!!!!

[livecards]

Thanks Monkover.
I'm a new player and I'm going to use these starting hand requirements in HEPFAP for the time being. It just seemed that there are major differences in groups 4-8. I want to build the correct foundation in my game. I'll mix up my starting requirments, deviate from the hand rankings, from time to time in order to mix up my pre-flop play. Thanks again.

[damedley]

This may be obvious, but keep in mind both hand ranking charts are for Limit.

[Sean Fraley]

As mentioned, the hand rankings are guidelines, not rules. For this reason, the minor differences in hand rankings between the two sources are really of little to no consequence over the course of normal play. Just pick a list and go with it.

[Mhoram]

I'm just beginning to really grasp this, and i've never read it in a book, so I think it's good to share.

The thing you need to consider is not this hand is better than this, it's what this hand has the potential to become. Aside from AA and KK and maybe QQ, the rest of the hands aren't going to win you much unimproved, it's all about what you're hoping to flop. Take each hand you play and ask yourself what the ideal flop would be and also ask yourself what a realistic flop might be. AQo you're looking for top pair top kicker. JTs you're looking for an outside straight draw or flush draw. 44 you're looking for a set of fours. 78s you're looking for an outside straight draw or a flush draw.

Knowing what kind of flop you're looking for prepares you for how the hand might proceed after the flop if you get the flop you were looking for. For example, playing drawing hands in early position means that even if you hit the flop you're going to have to chase a draw out of position, not fun. On the other hand if you play a small or medium pocket pair from early position you're either going to make a set or you aren't, when you don't you fold and move on, when you do you've got the best hand and being out of position isn't so bad. How about KQo from early position? Looks like a powerhouse hand until you realize that even if you hit your king or queen you are out of position with top pair second best kicker. Someone with AK or AQ has you crushed and you're going to have trouble letting go of the hand because you got the flop you were hoping for. (Hint: In early position, KQo SUCKS!)

You need to think about the hands you play and the position you play them based on what you want to flop and how the had will proceed if you hit the flop like you hope.

[Cheech3398]

I agree with most of this but "looking" for a certain flop could leave you with an unnecessary feeling of defeat if you miss the flop or only make mid/bottom pair. Learning to play your oppponants can help you much more than expecting a flop, and mucking when you miss. After you learn about your opponants you can get into a comfortable playing style, learn about style variation, misdirection, etc.

Interestingly, I think the way you describe looking for a flop is kind of a backwards way of laying out possibilities for what your opponants may have, yes?

[Mhoram]

I guess so, part of it is knowing what i'm looking for and that naturally leads to thinking about what I can beat and what I can't beat if I get what i'm looking for or what I may have to play against. That sort of thing. Just in general you're thinking ahead and considering the different possibilities, which is something a lot of novice players need to work on.

And imo, in NL, if all I flop is mid/bottom pair, a sense of defeat and a instinct to fold would be a big improvement for most novice players. I mean, you aren't really looking to showdown mid/bottom pair expecting to win. If you flop mid/bottom pair with little chance of improvement you might as well have missed altogether, it's bluff or fold isn't it?

[Cheech3398]

Yeah it probably is bluff or fold. Luckily its poker and bluffing is a big part. I said learning to play your oponants will help you win, not win at showdown.