Standard?

[mvoss]

Ok, all the talk about not raising has got me confused. I consider the way I played this hand very standard, but do you?

Only read on BB is that he has donked an OESD 3-way from BB after OTB raised preflop and SB checked the flop.

5/10 5-max, Hero is OTB with K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

Preflop:
UTG calls, CO folds, <font color="red">Hero raises</font>, SB calls, BB calls, UTG calls.

Flop: (8 SB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
SB checks, <font color="red">BB bets</font>, UTG folds, <font color="red">hero raises</font>, SB folds, BB calls.

Turn: (6 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
<font color="red">BB bets</font>, <font color="red">hero raises</font>, BB calls.

River: (10BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
<font color="red">Hero bets</font>, BB calls.

[Oink]

If this isnt standard I dont want to be standard.

[ILOVEPOKER929]

[ QUOTE ]
If this isnt standard I dont want to be standard.

[/ QUOTE ]

FWIW, Against an unknown, I would not raise a turn donk after this action if the turn card was a A,Q,J,T,9,8,7,6,5,diamond.

If the turn is a 2,3,or 4, I need a very strong read not to raise. I understand that if we raise here it will be impossible to respond correctly to a 3bet given the lack of information on our opponent, but sometimes you'll be in a situation where you'll have the nuts often enough that even if you dont know what to do if 3bet, raising is still worth it. I think thats the situation were in when the turn card is a 2,3,4.

I think the hero played this hand well.

[aargh57]

I play it the same. Why would we not raise the turn here? If villain's got 2 pair we've got lot's of outs and I wan't to charge SB if he's drawing. I also think we're ahead here a lot.

[danzasmack]

A lot of times the turn is a bet/3bet. I think on this particular turn card though I'm always raising. I might think twice on a 6 or 7, always raise a jack or a ten. I like a jack better than a ten though.

[aargh57]

[ QUOTE ]
A lot of times the turn is a bet/3bet. I think on this particular turn card though I'm always raising. I might think twice on a 6 or 7, always raise a jack or a ten. I like a jack better than a ten though.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why would a Ten be better than a 7 and especially a 6? Both the T and 7 put a 3 strt on board, why would you feel more comfortable raising a T as opposed to a 7?

[danzasmack]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
A lot of times the turn is a bet/3bet. I think on this particular turn card though I'm always raising. I might think twice on a 6 or 7, always raise a jack or a ten. I like a jack better than a ten though.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why would a Ten be better than a 7 and especially a 6? Both the T and 7 put a 3 strt on board, why would you feel more comfortable raising a T as opposed to a 7?

[/ QUOTE ]

Because for some reason people donk QJ like every time here. A ten is better than a 7 IMO because JT gets there with a 7. It's close to rambling.

For some reason I've just seen that the people who donk QJo on this flop are also the type to donk the straight when they hit it.

[Redeye]

[ QUOTE ]
A lot of times the turn is a bet/3bet

[/ QUOTE ]

This was certainly true in the Party 5/10 game prior to the US legislation. The line was so abused it was sick. However, I have noticed that this is not used anywhere near as often anymore. In fact, it almost always is a picked up draw or a bet to prevent a free card.

[yourface]

totally standard except the converter is messed up

I've been thinking about the post that ILP made about using more passive lines to extract the most value. I think that in spots where you don't have to worry about protection (heads up, multiway with ragged boards) it can be better to just call the flop.

you win the most from bluffs and weak hands that would give up if you put in flop action, and you you win an extra half bet from any worse hand that villain will call down with. you charge draws more when their equity is worse, and you reduce their implied odds by keeping them in the lead.

I think you still need to raise the flop a significant amount of the time to give your semibluff raises credibility though.

ps stop playing in my games

edit: and this definately isn't one of those spots because the board is draw heavy and it is multiway

[mvoss]

I wasn't particularly thinking about ILP when I made this post. I know he mostly talks about small HU pots on dry boards. There has been other posters wanting to take more passive lines in bigger mw pots.