Inducing a bluff - Page 4

golferbrent · #1 11-19-2007, 05:21 AM

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Commerce 40/80. Game is playing very very tight and it's not that great, but we're about to break (and unbeknownst to me I'm about to move to an awesome game for the last 2 hours of the night).

Folded to me in the CO, I open AQ. SB calls, BB folds.

Flop 855. Check, I bet, he calls.
Turn A. He checks, I check?

(Plan is for him to bet the river and I raise any card that isn't an 8, T, or J.)

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Which night was this? I was there this weekend playing in the 40 on both Friday and Saturday? I was curious which game you got moved to that was so good... maybe we played together? The game I was in was absolutely dynamite--unlike any game I have played in before. 4-5-6 ways for multiple bets pre-flop all the time. 3-4-5 players consistently CC'ing preflop. Couldn't believe how good the game was!! Just curious?

As far as this hand goes: I am not sure I see the value here? Do you think the player has a worse ace on the turn? If so he pays off both streets. If he has a five you save money b/c 3 bets probably don't go in on river unless the player is full. If you put him on a pair of some sort--Are you thinking that a check on the turn will get him to lead the river thus gaining a bet and possibly two b/c he will make a confusion call?

If that is the case then it does make sense, but I think it is outweighed by the bet you might be missing from someone with a worse A? Curious to hear your thoughts!

bdaddy · #2 11-19-2007, 04:56 PM

golferbrent- this table(bad game) was 2nd row away from the board along the walkway. When that game moved we both got moved to 3rd table along walkway(sick game), which contained spaztard indian guy in seat1, blitzed meathead fratboy tool in seat 9.

btw, I liked this play , given the dynamic of the table and the villain at the time.

private joker · #3 11-19-2007, 06:28 PM

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golferbrent- this table(bad game) was 2nd row away from the board along the walkway. When that game moved we both got moved to 3rd table along walkway(sick game), which contained spaztard indian guy in seat1, blitzed meathead fratboy tool in seat 9.

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As well as fishy wool-cap guy in seat 7.

Which game were you in, brent? The only other good table was the one Sailboats was at (Pete Sampras-looking kid in seat 9) and that had a bigtime LAG getting a massage in seat 4 and some old white guy in seat 6 in a red sweater.

Sailboats · #4 11-19-2007, 06:51 PM

I was playing with that wool cap guy at the same table the night before. He most likely was playing for 24+ hours. I value-checked the turn and called a river bet on a 682KJ board with 77 and had to hear about how i should have folded and he could of easily had me beat.

PJ-- there was also a fishy guy in seat 1 who is a NL regular trying out some limit(cold calling machine). And you must try and keep my identity a secret [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

golferbrent · #5 11-20-2007, 02:39 AM

Yeah I played with that wool cap guy earlier... he was leaving Commerce when I was checking out on Sunday at like 3:30... I started playing with him on Friday in the 20 before moving to the 40... assuming he was older and wore glasses as well.

I was on 137... the closest table to the night club up by the cashier. Game was out of this world!! Had a guy playing that dumps 4 dimes and had never played hold'em before. Watched him call 160 cold on turn with gut shot st8 draw with paired board--drawing dead. Best was when he called all the way with no draw at all with 6-4o trying to make a common pair!! He goes busto--and politely thanks the table for the good time and leaves!! Then on Saturday evening--guy comes in--Armenian I believe--waiting for the 1-2--first up, but gets impatient and has floor start a 2-4 list. While waiting, steams off 2 racks in about 45 minutes, rebuys another rack and steams off most of it before I quit in another 45 minutes. I beat him every pot--very much fun!

Fianchetto · #6 11-19-2007, 01:38 PM

No need to overthink this one, bet the turn.

Bicycles_Biatch · #7 11-19-2007, 05:12 PM

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No need to overthink this one, bet the turn.

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I agree... I think most likely he was peeling the flop with an inferior ace or an underpair to the board. I see players at commerce do this ALL the time with a hand like 33, 66, 77 in this spot. They want to see that the turn is a "safe-card" before they check raise or lead bet the turn. Obviously the ace on the turn was not said "safe-card".

However.... one thing to consider is that you lose value if he has a hand like AJ-A9 and you check the turn... however... one benefit is the following.

By checking the turn I think you induce a crying call on the river by ANY pair if it's checked to you. Sticking with my same example from above. Player calls your preflop late position raise with 66... flop looks safe, but they are kind of weak and want to see a safe turn.

Turn is an ace... they hate it and plan to fold the turn to your bet. BUT, now you check. River, comes a blank... they still don't like their hand but don't have the balls to bet it. They check, you bet... they talk themselves into a crying call because in their eyes you "gave-up" on the turn and must have two other unpaired broadway cards. I don't know if you know the Korean John Smith that plays at commerce every day, but he pulls this play off to perfection. Someone people are always making crying calls to him on the river after he checked the turn. It works for him :-)

This is the only place I see this play gaining value...

jeffnc · #8 11-20-2007, 05:52 PM

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however... one benefit is the following.

By checking the turn I think you induce a crying call on the river by ANY pair if it's checked to you.

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I think this hand was way overthought. Except for this comment, which I agree with.

Nate. · #9 11-20-2007, 06:45 PM

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however... one benefit is the following.

By checking the turn I think you induce a crying call on the river by ANY pair if it's checked to you.

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I think this hand was way overthought. Except for this comment, which I agree with.

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One way to think about this hand is: if you wouldn't make this play with AA, you probably shouldn't make it with AQ either.

--Nate

private joker · #10 11-20-2007, 07:19 PM

I would be even more likely to make it with AA, Nate. Because that reduces the combos of hands villain can hold with an ace in them -- making it even more profitable to induce a river bluff than to let him fold the turn before catching up to a showdownable second-best hand.