Bankrolling 17 year old kid

[JustCuz]

I'd agree that SNG's are probably not the way to start unless he will be a tourney-only player. Start with cash, and, as has been said, .01/.02 is just no fold'em hold'em for stakes that are inconsequential -- might as well start off with playchips if you're going to play micro-limits.

I would add that I don't think "cutting your teeth" online is the way to go, either. Start off playing live, see what PEOPLE do at the tables, get a feel for player types by looking at faces, clothes, etc. Then, those people-game skills can be transferred to the online environment. I don't think this is as successful the other way around.

Finally, I don't think that a $1000 bankroll is enough to start being serious about poker. You need 200 buy-ins to start building a real roll, so $1k would be enough to buy in for $5, and, again, those limits are a joke. Maybe this is why you were thinking about starting with SNG's?

Here's my suggestion: Give him $5,000 when he's 21 (near the end of college) and start him out playing 1-3 stud in a real cardroom. Until then, let him play his own money online if he wants to.

[KurtSF]

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A relative has guaranteed him 11/hr. at Walgreens. I told him to consider poker first before going for it. He can always get the job anytime he wants to.

I made it clear that my offer is an offer. Not a command or a request. He says he will take the offer. He is a very good student.

The reason I made the post is to hopefully get some advice on how I should go about maximizing his learning in the least amount of time. Purely self taught without any instructions from me.

I never told him that it should be a career. It's just another subject in school but with a potential for income. But not a career.

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You are giving him an income opportunity. Don't ride him like a horse who has to make profits for you. Give him the money, an let him make his own choices from there. Regarding your OP and specific advice.

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I want to bankroll him $1,000 on his 18th birthday under a few conditions.

Here are the conditions:

Read Theory of Poker, Poker and Emotions section of Inside the Poker Mind, HOH I and II before turning 18.

Once 18, give him a small bankroll with choice of games and limits under my strict supervision. He will play 100 1 table SNGs, 100 shorthanded SNGs, then play 500 heads up SNGs. Probably on Fulltilt.

After playing all of the above games, he'll read Poker Tournament Formula, Kill Phil, and Making the Final Table, maybe the Fulltilt tournament book as well.

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(1) The "syllabus" for this endeavor should be, in no particular order:

* TOP
* SSHE
* HOH1 and HOH2
* PNLv1
* SnG by Moshman
* something on BR management

(2) Do not pick what games he will play! Let him read the literature, try out the games, get a feel for what he enjoys, and get a feel for where he has edges. Let him decide which edges are most +EV for himself, and allow him the autonomy to pursue them.

(3) Do not dictate how much he should play! Every poker player is different. Some multitable 20 SnGs at a time, other's single-table ring games, etc., etc. Again, by granting him autonomy for deciding how often and how much he plays you maximize both the probability and the ceiling of his success.

(4) Give him a poker bankroll, not money. Do not let this ever be money. (At least until he's an established winner and wants to cash out some money for toys. If you want to give him money, give him cash to do with what he pleases, which at 18 should be crappy used car.) Set up the poker account yourself, and on his 18th birthday give him access to the account with a thousand dollars in chips already in it. Stress that this is "free" play and a gift from you, and that there is no shame or guilt about losing it all, while simultaneously emphasizing good BR management and that the goal of this "game" is to not go bust. I would suggest Full Tilt Poker, mainly because the $600 first deposit bonus will provide a nice cushion as he learns the games and learns to deal with variance.

If this kid is as bright as you think he is what you want to do is give him the tools to pursue his interests and let him run free. You want to minimize any limitations as much as possible. Trust me.

[KurtSF]

Oh, two last little things.

$1000 is fine for a starting bankroll. Its enough to get into $5 tournies, .25/50 LHE or 25NL. Levels where the risks are small, but the wins can actually be real.

And last but not least, if you do this at FTP don't forget to sign up for rakeback. This is crucial.

[agoldenbear]

sounds like an intelligent, driven, and competitive kid; if he studies poker with the same tenacity that he does his schoolwork and extracurricular activities, he should be able to figure out NLHE pretty well within a year or so.

Like so many other posters, I recommend you direct him to the cash side of things. Tournies are great, but a run of bad luck is highly underscored by the survival nature of the tournament payout structure. In cash games an edge is an edge, so you don't have to play each hand with the larger concerns of your tournament equity affecting every decision. Just based on your description, this kid seems to have a lot of the characteristics that make for solid advancement in poker.

Personally, I would suggest the following books, to be read in order.

Phil Gordon's "Little Green Book"

Angel Largay's "No-limit Texas Hold 'Em: A Complete Course"

Sklansky's "No-limit Hold Em; Theory and Practice"

Flynn & Mehta's "Professional No Limit Hold Em: Vol. 1"

Guerrera's "Killer Poker By the Numbers" (esp. if his math aptitude is above average)

For tournaments:
"Harrington on Hold em" is extremely valuable and readable
"The Full Tilt Poker Strategy Guide" is deep, unique and superb
"Sit and Go Strategy" - Moshman - the only good text on the subject
"Kill Everyone" - Nelson, Rodman, Streib... not yet released but I expect it to be quite good, although it may rehash existing concepts

For limit and general poker:
"Theory of Poker" - Sklansky
"Real Poker II: The play of hands" - Roy Cooke
"Winning in tough hold em games" - Stox
"Weighing the Odds in Hold Em Poker" - Yao

Hope this helps.

[daveT]

Does your kid play poker now?

What is he into?

I told one person a while ago, that if he is going to start into poker, play one day of each form of poker (play money pref, but whatever), decide what he likes best, then study the living S out of that game. There is no reason for him to focus on so many games from the get-go. Don't be fooled by "SNG": HU is very different than 9-handed.

Every one on this site has a preferred game. The reasons we each like our individual game is not because it is the first one, but because it is what we are comfortable doing. I have different reasons for playing HUSNGs than the other posters on the forum, and I think many people agree that 9-handed SNGs are an insane way to try and make an income.

It sounds to me like you are asking your kid to attempt different options for making a living. I didn't know that Walgreens paid this much, but I guess that is because you know the manager. I don't see why he can't have the job and also play poker. Seriously, his next job offer is going to be $7 an hour max if he has to find it himself.

Did you ever consider that he won't like to play poker?

Having a job is good too, because it is a good experience for the kid. He isn't going to be friends with his high-school crop for more than 3 years (LOL), and meeting new people would do him good. I really think you are enforcing the idea that it is better to work on his own than to get a "real" job. There are pros and cons to both. I don't see how working on his own at 18 is going to turn out better. Ultimately, I think you should be attempting to nurture both sides of this, and trust him to make the best decisions about weather to work 9-5 or not, about what form of poker to play, and the choice to use his paycheck to refill his playing account.

[Biggy]

Why don't you buy him a cardrunners account as well? Or at least select a few of the better videos available in unl or ssnl. Videos are a pretty good way to learn, might wanna put that into your conditions too.

[Point Point]

Can you name specific no limit holdem video titles? No abbreviations if possible. Thanks.

[Noodles.]

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You are enabling a minor to get into a habit which can be an addiction.

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The neurolinguistic programming training ensures this does not happen.

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O RLY?

[chopchoi]

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how can one be a good monopoly player?

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You me and one of your friends play monopoly for $1k each. I give you each 3% vig.

[Biggy]

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Can you name specific no limit holdem video titles? No abbreviations if possible. Thanks.

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http://www.roulettenburg.com/poker/videos.html