Nut Straight - $1.25 Double Stack

[KStV]

Full Tilt $1.25 Double Stack SnG (NLHE)
40 out of 90 players left (Average Stack = t6,750)
Blinds t60/120

MP2-- (t15,500)
HJ (Hero)-- (t8,800)
BTN-- (t11,700)

BTN has been playing just about every hand in late position, raising the button very frequently, particularly with multiple limpers. He has also aggressively bet most flops.

Folds to MP2, who limps.
Folds to Hero with K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
Hero calls.
CO folds.
BTN raises to t420.
Blinds fold.
MP2 calls.
Hero calls.

FLOP (t1,440): A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] Q [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 10 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

MP2 checks.

Hero??

[Dunkman]

I don't see anything wrong with letting him bet, especially since you have the best relative position...who knows, maybe BTN will be and MP2 will try something crazy, whereas if you bet they both fold. On balance I think checking is best, although there's nothing wrong with leading either and it's fairly villain dependent.

[KStV]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't see anything wrong with letting him bet, especially since you have the best relative position...who knows, maybe BTN will be and MP2 will try something crazy, whereas if you bet they both fold. On balance I think checking is best, although there's nothing wrong with leading either and it's fairly villain dependent.

[/ QUOTE ]

This was my thinking as well. I've been focusing on betting out with my made hands more (my biggest leak is being too passive/trappy), but this looked like a good spot to let BTN (and maybe even MP2) hang himself.

There are no hands that I should fear, and I know BTN likes to take the driver's seat. All kinds of reasonable hands are paying me off here.

<font color="red"> </font> Hero checks.

BTN bets t2,160
MP2 folds.

Hero? <font color="red"> </font>

[Dunkman]

Given the overbet I think I'd have to just call and give him a chance to finish hanging himself.

[crankalicious]

This is where I think a little acting can be useful - not too much mind you. You don't want to make villain suspicious, but I think if you smooth call, villain will check next round. If you contemplate for a few seconds, take a deep breath, then call, you should induce another bet at which time you can reraise because villain will likely be pot committed then.

This is assuming the board does not pair. Although I don't think that should change your strategy, it is cause for some degree of concern.

[crankalicious]

I should amend my last statement. You don't really need to take a deep breath. You just have to pause and think about it long enough to make villain think it's a call that requires any thought.

[KStV]

Reading your responses, I really like a call here, too. And I love the idea of Hollywooding it a little. The flat call is probably a better play than the one I made, although it didn't end up mattering---&gt;

My thinking was that flat calling his overbet would look really scary and kill the action. I thought a small raise was a win-win situation: (1) if he folds, I win a big pot and he doesn't get a chance to draw to a chop; (2) if he calls, I've just built a giant pot with the nuts.

First question: Is the small raise dumb? Is this call or shove only?

<font color="red"> </font> Hero raises to t4,500.
BTN Calls. <font color="red"> </font>

TURN (t10,440): 2 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

Hero?

[Dunkman]

[ QUOTE ]
This is where I think a little acting can be useful - not too much mind you. You don't want to make villain suspicious, but I think if you smooth call, villain will check next round. If you contemplate for a few seconds, take a deep breath, then call, you should induce another bet at which time you can reraise because villain will likely be pot committed then.

This is assuming the board does not pair. Although I don't think that should change your strategy, it is cause for some degree of concern.

[/ QUOTE ]

The board pairing is a cause for some concern, but not what you're talking about. I'm gonna take a minute and explain the thinking behind this play, and why I said call here when the right play is almost always to shove the flop. First, the board pairing and giving someone a full house is of 0 concern to us. Do you hear me, 0! If we shove this flop, any 2 pair hand and any sets are going to call. So, if they are going to hit a boat on the turn, there's nothing we can do about it, it's just a cooler. They weren't folding, and neither are we. The concern on the turn is that there are a fair amount of cards that could kill our action from hands that would have called a flop shove from us. Ks and Js on the turn are terrible for us, and the board pairing is only a little better. Now, I'm thinking AQ and sets aren't folding regardless, they'll find a way to call. However, we could easily lose hands like QT, AJ, etc., if the wrong turn card hits (AJ may not call a flop shove anyway, but whatever.) I mean if villain has AT and a Q hits the turn, or a K or J, we're going to have a very hard time getting their money. It is for this reason that I'd usually shove the flop....

However, against a lagtard maniac, I think 87 is just as likely as AK. If his range is really huge, then taking a few seconds then just calling is probably the way to go. If his range is mostly hopeless bluffs, we simply have to give him a chance to fire again on this scary looking board. A call from us, combined with the limp PF, probably looks as much like A8s as it does KJ, and he may decide he can fold us out with a hopeless turn shove into the nuts. This is why I'd call here, but against most players you'll make more money by just shoving this flop.

edit: as played, shove the turn, if he liked his hand enough to call the minish raise on the flop, he should like it enough to call a turn shove. As a caveat, I'm not sure what hand would call a raise to 4500 and not a shove.

[crankalicious]

I will humbly point out that Dunkman is clearly beyond my level in terms of his thinking, although I'm pleased that we came to the same answer. I'm close!

Shove the turn! I'm assuming villain will call.

[KStV]

Thanks to both of you for your responses. Really interesting thoughts on what to do with that flop bet by BTN. In general, I think I need to lean towards shoving more for all the reasons Dunkman said. But I'm glad to hear that my initial slow-play on the flop was defensible and not just another example of my weak tendencies.

And the small raise was donkish but couldn't really hurt-- just delayed the chips going in.

He was probably surprised when I just put in the small raise rather than shoved. And I know I was surprised that he just called rather than re-popped for the stacks. Battle of the asshats [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

As for the turn, yes, the shove was automatic. As was his call.

BTN turned up Q [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] Q [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

So Dunkman was right-- all the $$$$ was going in no matter what anyone did.