Marrying a Girl From a Different Culture

[glorfindel]

I'm an American male married to a Korean National for 22 years.

I know people for whom the language barrier can be a great difficulty, but I didn't experience this. My degree was in linguistics with an emphasis on Chinese, so with the help of a Korean grammar and my job as a liaison officer with the Korean army, I was able to learn formal Korean relatively easily. We spoke Korean exclusively until she came to the US.

Cultural differences unexpectedly pop up everywhere. You must be alert and diplomatic to identify and resolve misunderstandings and conflicts that this causes. For example, service in Korea is universally excellent; the poor service and impolite shop clerks in the US can be interpreted as personally insulting. That sounds trivial, but from her perspective (insecure in a new and strange country) it is not. Also, familial interactions are governed by formal rules in Korea, whereas the relaxed atmosphere of social interaction in the US causes misinterpretations. These kinds of things occur all the time and cause stress to both partners. Coupled with the normal stresses that occur in any marriage, this alone can be too much for many people.

You must eliminate your pre-existing generalizations of the alien culture and focus on understanding the realities. For example, the sterotype of the submissive asian woman, particularly among Korean women, is simply wrong. They may appear that way in public, but this is an illusion. I've known many Korean-Korean couples, and without exception the wife runs the household, including finances. But unlike many American wives, the Korean wives I've known are parsimonious, almost to a fault, and focus on saving the money, not spending.

While personal values may be in line with the cultural mainstream, they may be very different. My wife was a bit of an iconoclast. For instance, she was the first to import and breed yorkies, pomeranians, and malteses for pets (no eating dog jokes please), and she was one of the founders of the Korean Kennel Club.

An international marriage requires significantly more effort than normal. Become very educated about the culture and the prospective spouse and his/her family before embarking on this adventure. Live in the country for at least a year. I've been very lucky; my wife is my best friend and we enjoy many of the same activities. Most international marriages do not succeed. When I married my wife, the US army had statistics that indicated a 95% failure rate.

[MrMon]

I haven't experienced this firsthand, only through stories my wife tells me of her first marriage. She's Jewish and supposedly married the ideal guy the first time, an Israeli. But not your normal Israeli, one with a Morraccan background. Anyone who says that all you need to succeed is a common religion is just plain wrong. It turned out culturally he was much more Arab-like that anything European or American Jewish. Very patriarchical, not at all work oriented, everything family, and that meant his family, not hers.

My wife found out that contrary to stereotypes, many Jews love Israel, but can't stand Israelis, especially Israeli men. She's since met tons of American women who have experienced exactly the same things with Israeli spouses of all stripes, all ending in divorce. Since marrying me, she's said how nice it is to be able to relate to common childhood expereinces and have someone be able to instantly understand that, whether it's a long forgotten TV show or commercial, or just how you do certain things in American society without having to constantly justify it. Marrying a European, I can see it having more of a chance, but someone from a completely different culture, that has to be very, very hard.

[katyseagull]

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Also, familial interactions are governed by formal rules in Korea, whereas the relaxed atmosphere of social interaction in the US causes misinterpretations. These kinds of things occur all the time and cause stress to both partners. Coupled with the normal stresses that occur in any marriage, this alone can be too much for many people.

You must eliminate your pre-existing generalizations of the alien culture and focus on understanding the realities. For example, the sterotype of the submissive asian woman, particularly among Korean women, is simply wrong. They may appear that way in public, but this is an illusion. I've known many Korean-Korean couples, and without exception the wife runs the household, including finances. But unlike many American wives, the Korean wives I've known are parsimonious, almost to a fault, and focus on saving the money, not spending.



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Thank you so much for your input. I really appreciate hearing your views on foreign marriage especially because you're married to a Korean woman! The part you mention about Korean women running the household and finances seems to be applicable to my friend's situation. He pretty much feels "run". He is very frustrated with the financial imbalance and the fact that his wife wants to save all "her" money but doesn't mind him spending "his" money on their day-to-day bills. Lol. When he throws out an idea for their future, either investing or planning a vacation or whatever, she asks him "Is it 100% safe? Is it 100% guaranteed?" Without this guarantee she refuses to go along with his suggestions. He feels sort of like her servant.

Another thing you touch on is the difference in familial rules between cultures. I think this has been a big part of my friend's problem. He is living in Korea and has become part of her extended family. He does not understand his role in her life or even how important her role is as the oldest sibling of 3 daughters who is now responsible for elderly parents. He was totally unprepared.

A couple things that SHE told me when I last spoke with her - she said Tom talks too much and it is viewed in her country as poor behavior. She can't stand that he swears at all. Like any swearing is considered very unmannerly. (He told me that they have HUGE fights over his swearing.) He wants to buy stuff like motorcycles, old classic cars, plasma TV, cool gadgets. He complains that she only wants to spend her money on stupid designer clothes and shoes and ridiculously expensive apartments. When they fight he cusses and she can't stand it. She shuts down and gives him the cold shoulder for days. When he told her they need to talk things out she obliged him by screaming and throwing things at him. She thinks he's immature and too boorish and he thinks she's crazy as a loon and selfish.

I know them both and think they are both extremely nice, wonderful people.

[katyseagull]

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Entering the marriage neither of us has any appreciation of how tough it would be to make a house out of two different upbringings. I mistakenly assumed that because she wanted to live in America that she would instantly become American and reject all desire to associate with the language, music, televison, etc. of her native country.

I tell people that we get along almost enough to be married. We have a wonderful bi-lingual daughter, but as we were leaving the court room after a divorce I said, "Sorry that didn't work out," and she said, "Sorry my parents are Mexican."

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Your experience is very much like another friend I have. Long time childhood friend who I grew up with and have stayed in touch with for 15 years. She went through some bad relationships and ended up abandoning her own profession and lifestyle to marry a Mexican man with little education. We all had high hopes for this marriage because she's a great girl with a lot of compassion and he seemed to be crazy about her. Turns out that she and her Mexican husband had dramatic differences in upbringing and values. They just divorced after bringing 2 kids into the world.

One thing that was a huge culture clash for her was his strong Catholic faith. She was brought up atheist and just couldn't relate. Also, his parents were his whole world and he wanted to please them and visit them frequently. She, like me, had moved far away from her family years before and only saw her parents once a year. She believed in saving their money and watching their spendings closely, he wanted to take out loans for everything and was very bad at money management. His parents are quite poor and live on a tiny farm near the Mexican border. Their focus is on their religion and survival. Her parents were academics who I remember vividly as intellectuals sitting around the kitchen arguing about politics and art and music. Just a huge culture clash.

My friend says she is sick of the Mexican "macho" thing. She has lost respect for her ex-husband and views him as a phony with superficial values. She said the macho image is very important to Mexican men and they don't respect women or put them on equal footing. (Note: I do not agree with this I'm just relating what my girlfriend has told me in her hours of frustration and anger. Frankly, I like macho guys and I do not find them to be phony at all [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img].)


In the end, my friend's husband cheated on her with the girl in the trailer next door. My friend would come home only to find him driving off with their kids and the lady next door to go do something fun. She said he was always into doing fun things. According to him, my friend is a real drag. lol.

Unfortunately, the custody battle over their children has become a very real and volatile issue. She is now paying him alimony and staring at the very real possibility that she might lose the children.



edited to say - Forgive me if this sounded rude towards Mexican men. I didn't intend it that way. All the Mexicans I've known in my life have been extremely hard working and wonderful family men with strong family values. I think this is my girl friend's poor choice of a mate. She just picked the wrong man for her but the cultural issues certainly didn't help. It put a strain on their marriage from the beginning. I'm sure there are an equal number of jerky American men and Mexican men. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

[katyseagull]

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Btw Katie, I'm a German guy. Became naturalized just before my teens. We tend to like order, clarity, and stand on politeness. If there is such a thing as a German national character, it loves its forests and is a bit of a romantic. If we see an open door in the house, we tend to close it. There seems to be a certain natural respect we lend toward each other that I see in some Asian cultures, but not really so much in America.

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Blarg, I think it's cool you are German. One of the greatest guys I've ever known was a German who was doing an internship over here in the US and happened to land at my company. We connected almost immediately. He was this tall, awkward blond guy with a short military hair cut and dorky glasses. He was a scientist and extremely polite. Surprisingly, he dug me and I was crazy about him. We would always sit together and talk, every day. Talk about his family, his friends, his childhood. I remember being at his apartment and him showing me his suit and all his belongings. He was the sweetest guy I'd ever met. When he left I thought my world would never be fun again. I like to think that all Germans are like him. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

[jfk]

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One thing that was a huge culture clash for her was his strong Catholic faith. She was brought up atheist and just couldn't relate. Also, his parents were his whole world and he wanted to please them and visit them frequently. She, like me, had moved far away from her family years before and only saw her parents once a year. She believed in saving their money and watching their spendings closely, he wanted to take out loans for everything and was very bad at money management. His parents are quite poor and live on a tiny farm near the Mexican border. Their focus is on their religion and survival. Her parents were academics who I remember vividly as intellectuals sitting around the kitchen arguing about politics and art and music. Just a huge culture clash.

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Why this is seen as a culture clash more than a case of incompatible people who made a bad choice to marry?

He was:

from a poor background,
poorly educated,
religious,
had strong ties to his family,
rural,
and unconcerned with financial stability.

She was:

from an educated background with somewhat refined tastes,
not religious,
not particularly close to her family,
and mindful of financial considerations.

It is unclear how culture is the major culprit in this divorce. Had the two both been raised in Ohio (where similar differences between the two people described could be found) it sounds like they were both just very different people who seem not to be a good fit.

[katyseagull]

Yeah, you may have a good point. But I do think the Catholic thing for her was a big cultural difference. I remember her talking about this with me quite a lot.

She told me how she would find herself constantly over at her in-laws house, sitting with his family and struggling to communicate as his mom and dad would keep asking her over and over about going to church with them. She had the impression that they felt she was not trying to assimilate into their culture. And she told me how Luis would say that she had an obligation to make his mom happy. I think she had no idea how to communicate with them that she was not into church and not comfortable attending it. Is that not a cultural difference? Maybe I don't understand what cultural differences are.

But you make a very solid point. It's entirely possible that the divorce had less to do with cultural differences and much more to do with two very incompatible people.

[Blarg]

Ugh I hate that kind of religious coercion with a passion. That's a nasty thing to subject someone to. If Luis said his wife had an obligation to make his mom happy that included totally changing her central conceptions about life, Luis was way, way, way out of line. That's an ugly request phrased, and intended, in an ugly way.

[glorfindel]

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He is very frustrated with the financial imbalance and the fact that his wife wants to save all "her" money but doesn't mind him spending "his" money on their day-to-day bills. Lol. When he throws out an idea for their future, either investing or planning a vacation or whatever, she asks him "Is it 100% safe? Is it 100% guaranteed?" Without this guarantee she refuses to go along with his suggestions. He feels sort of like her servant.

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Among Korean spouses there is usually no distinction between "his" or "her" money; it's the families money. However, it is odd that she isn't willing to consider investing for the future, as Korean women are usually sensible about risk/reward investing. I've not had this problem because I'm not a gadget/status person and neither is my wife and we both have similar saving goals.

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He does not understand his role in her life or even how important her role is as the oldest sibling of 3 daughters who is now responsible for elderly parents. He was totally unprepared.

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I predict that this will be a huge problem for him in the future, as the oldest sibling has major responsibilities for her birth family. (Hint: There aren't many nursing homes in Korea.)

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A couple things that SHE told me when I last spoke with her - she said Tom talks too much and it is viewed in her country as poor behavior. She can't stand that he swears at all. Like any swearing is considered very unmannerly.

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Swearing is considered very "low class" behavior in Korea and he should not be doing it if he cares about his image at all. Language is treated quite formally in Korea. For instance, there are different vocabularies and grammars in the Korean language depending on the relationship of the person to whom you're talking (adult-child, boss-employee, friend-friend).

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She shuts down and gives him the cold shoulder for days. When he told her they need to talk things out she obliged him by screaming and throwing things at him.

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Lol. This is typical Korean wife behavior. In fact, Korean men like to joke with other Korean men about their wives' tantrums. This sounds much worse than it is if you learn to shrug it off, as it usually means the problem isn't that serious. He needs to try and subtly talk it out, not overtly. If he tries to badger her during the "cold shoulder" period, it will make it much worse, almost like antagonising a drunk.

His problems are almost all caused by differences between the cultures and will require significant compromise if he wants the marriage to work. His situation is a perfect example of why intercultural marriages should not be undertaken w/o more knowledge and serious consideration than normal, since it's difficult to even imagine some of the scenarios that will occur.

[Wynton]

I married a girl from a very different culture.

I was raised by liberal Jews who grew up in NYC and my wife was raised by Catholics from Greeley, Colorado, who came from a farming background.

In some ways, I think I might have had more in common with some Europeans. But it's worked out well so far. [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]