What happens to the $210?

[Rick Nebiolo]

This one comes from a 5-10 capped/restricted buy-in NL game in an LA area card club.

Good game but I'm only $400 deep and can't add on per the buyin rules. Four players limp to me on the button. I have 6s5s and call. SB calls and BB checks. Pot is $65 after drop.

Flop is 6d 4s 3s. Checked to me and I bet $60 with my top pair and open-ended straight flush draw. All fold to the last player who calls. Pot is now $185.

Turn is a Js. Opponent bets $120. I stack off my call then decide to go all-in for my remaining $330.

Per my norm when all in I put my head down and wait; I'm bad for TV here. My opponent barely covers me and it's only going to cost him $210 to win $635. Backstory is he's been playing fairly tight and seems like a well behaved, straight-forward player. So the longer I wait the more I hope for the call.

About fifteen seconds pass. It's crowded and very noisy; my opponent is across the table from me seated next to the dealer and I have no idea what's going on. Finally I can feel the pot being pushed my way. I look up and see that all cards but mine are in the now almost completely squared up muck. The pot is gathered together and half way to my stack.

Opponent now exclaims that he said “call”. The players on his side of the table agree. Apparently the dealer didn't hear correctly and mucked his hand which wasn't protected in any way (these facts are not in dispute).

Dealer looks worried. I say “Please call the floor”. Floor comes, gathers initial facts and probably realizes this might be a bad one. He asks if we want to split the pot. I quietly say “Uh, no”.

Opponent is actually pretty calm considering what a clusterf__k situation he's in. He calmly admits he didn't protect his hand which is now completely intermingled in the muck. Table consensus is that he did say call. I don't dispute this at all; few lay down any kind of had with an opponent all-in getting these pot odds.

He now claims he had a medium sized flush straight flush (or perhaps straight and flush) draw/whatever. At this point I say “Really?” and show him my made baby flush straight-flush redraw. But I still hold onto my cards with a death-grip. That's my style.

Floor decides he needs to talk to a supervisor. I wonder why but within a minute he comes back and awards the pot to me. The pot does not include the amount of his last call.

Two questions:

1. As a player would you have asked the floor that your opponent be forced to put in the amount of his last call (in this case $210 which is most of his remaining stack).

2. If you were the floor and the player asked for the extra $210 as in 1. above what would you do?

~ Rick

[soah]

the dealer interpreted his action as a fold, for whatever reason. I can't see any argument (in this story) of why you should make him put the money in the pot at the same point in the hand where his cards were mucked.

[Riverman]

You should have gotten the $210.

[Rottersod]

If he insists that he called then he owes you the $210 and doesn't get his cards. He should know better than most that when you sit next to the dealer you have to protect your cards. Since the dealer completely lost track of the cards in the muck there's no way to retrieve them and I don't even want to get into allowing him to name his cards.

[soah]

There's no way that can be in the best interest of the game.

[DoGGz]

Making him give you the extra $210 is completely not in the best interest of the game. Ruling was good.

[KenProspero]

[ QUOTE ]
2. If you were the floor and the player asked for the extra $210 as in 1. above what would you do?

[/ QUOTE ]

If the dealer recognized the call, he can't muck the cards. Dealer just can't take both actions.

In this case, Dealer didn't hear call, Villian didn't protect his hand, cards were mucked, your pot. You don't get the raise too.

[Rick Nebiolo]

You are the floor. After you consult with the boss you award the pot (minus the $210 call) to the button.

Let's pretend the button player is a regular customer and a bit of a rules nit. Other than the “rules nit” part he is low maintenance.

Now the button player emphatically speaks up. “This is the wrong decision. Everyone agrees my opponent called. It's not my fault he didn't protect his hand. And it's not right to blame the dealer. This place is noisy as hell and a player should know enough to protect his hand better next to the dealer. I can't believe he took so long to call if he had the higher flush he said he had. I probably had the best hand and it was called. He didn't protect his hand and it was mucked. Why don't I get the money from the call?

Other than wishing you had the night off what's your response as the floor?

~ Rick

[Al_Capone_Junior]

Although he said call, the action which wound up being forced on his hand was a fold. He hadn't put the money in, the dealer took his hand and killed it the same as if he HAD said fold, therefore I can't see how he should now be forced to put the $ in. Although his hand was unprotected, several people did hear the verbal statement of "call," which means the dealer killed his hand in error. Now if he's going to pay the $210 he should by rights be allowed to draw at his outs with a live hand. But, since his hand is dead and cannot be retrieved, he should not have to put in the $$

[Ray Zee]

he has to lose the pot and not pay the 210. but thats the problem with verbal calls in no limit. and if you are playing dont move until the money is in and the pot is right. forget about honoring verbal declarations.
plus i have played in lots of spots where if you want to look away then you are really at risk. no good can come from you not looking.
maybe you are lucky he didnt have a hand as the dealer might have told you he folded when he didnt and you mucked. is it too much trouble to look to see how you are getting screwed