Ask me about: living in Indian Country or frontier Montana

[Fishwhenican]

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I grew up across the mountains from Browning -

amazing how the Rocky Mountains can seperate multi million dollar homes and rich white guys from the third world existance that is many native American reservations -

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Very True!

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of course, our experience is in their casinos alone, but driving thru some of those towns can just crush your spirit

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Gotta remember that out here the tribes have never been able to negotiate a compact with the state that allows them "Real" gaming. Nothing other than what is offered elsewhere in the state with the exception of a little bit higher payouts on their machines. So, gaming is not a real way for the tribes here to bring in outside money. No One is going to drive to a reservation to play what they can play in their own town all over the place. So casinos on the Rez basically just take from their own and do nothing to help out the tribe as a whole! Very different situation than places where the tribes have a compact with the state and can offer real casino gaming. Very sad that the state of MT will not let them have this one thing and I really believe this is racism in action too no matter what the state government might say

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every time I drive thru I think "hmmm, if I HAD to drop off the face of the earth" would I come here? - LOL


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No doubt a person could disappear and drop off the radar out here if he/she wanted to!

[Fishwhenican]

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In the case of Native Americans, how much "poverty" do you believe is lifestyle choice or culturally dictated versus being the result of some sort of broader societal "oppression?"

The reason I ask- many reservations are rich in minerals or other commodities (not to mention a very healthy supply of able-bodied manpower with nothing better to do) and are essentially fiscally autonomous (save for Federal jurisdiction for crimes).
If I put a few thousand white guys in that exact same situation, there's no doubt in my mind that they would have something going in a years time. However, native culture puts different emphases on lifestyle that, by our standards, might be classified as "impoverished" when often times, it's really a case of cultural minimalism and an acceptance of austerity (similar to that of the Amish. )

In short- do you believe the rampant poverty that pervades native communities is a result of their own collective decision making or something else?

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This may sound like a cop out but it is a combination of these things

There are a lot of things in the Native American culture that have contributed to their conditions. The people here were used to living in the moment and had no real vision of things like saving for the future. They were hunter/gatherers that did what they needed to do right now to survive. Things like savings accounts and managing a business for a profit are a foreign concept for some of the people who still hang on to these aspects of the culture. Even a concept like showing up for work on time and calling if you are sick, or whatever. We have a huge problem getting NA people to show up to work. Many times a person will get a job to take care of an immediate problem. Something like needing a new refrigerator turns into working to get the frige and then there is no need to work right??

On the other hand, there is a huge problem with the Rez being it's own sovereign territory. It makes it very difficult for business to come into the area and have and degree of stability. If something happens there is very little recourse because they are not protected by the state. They are at the mercy of the tribal gov and tribal courts. Consequently it keeps any real industry or business away from the rez. It even makes it hard for tribal members living on the rez to get loans for cars and things like that, much less try and get a loan from a bank for a house on the rez.

Another thing to remember is that even with a huge unemployment rate on the rez there is a huge number of those people who are just simply unemployable. There is a huge problem keeping kids in school. Dropout rate in the NA communities is huge. Finding educated and qualified NA people to do any kind of higher level jobs is a real battle. There just are not many, if any, to choose from. Is is really a pretty vicious cycle.

Natural resources are an interesting thing here as well. There are huge coal deposits and coal bed methane possibilities on the Northern Cheyenne Reservation but getting them to develop that is hard. The rez is all the land they have and they are very worried about wrecking it by mining or drilling for methane. Not an easy answer for that thing either but at some point they will have to develop some of those natural resources, I think.

I know many of the things I have listed make it sounds like the cultural issues are the whole reason for this rampant but I can assure you that being kept on reservations and treated differently than everyone else is as big a factor. It wasn't all that long ago that NA people were not even allowed off of the reservation. I was hunting with a NA buddy, on the rez, years ago and we were in an area that was along the rez line. He made a joke about how years ago an Indian would have been shot for crossing the rez line. I kind of laughed and then realized that he wasn't really kidding. I asked him about it and he told me that he knows that this was actually the case when his grandfather was a young boy. Not really that long ago!

[Bob Moss]

How satisfactory do people living on the reservation find their conditions? Would they classify themselves as people who need to be helped, as many white people believe? Do they complain about being poor, or do they just not care, or something else? I'm finding everything you're writing very interesting, and hope to see much more.

[Fishwhenican]

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How satisfactory do people living on the reservation find their conditions? Would they classify themselves as people who need to be helped, as many white people believe? Do they complain about being poor, or do they just not care, or something else? I'm finding everything you're writing very interesting, and hope to see much more.

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I want to preface this by saying that not everyone on the Rez is destitute and living in poverty. There are success stories and people who are doing well and very happy with their lives. There are NA people who show up to work, work hard, are extremely intelligent and are really really good people. But, there is also a higher percentage of people on the rez than off the rez that live in very poor conditions. It seems like most of the posts have been about the horrible conditions on the rez and I just wanted to throw in that there are also some good things there as well. It is very different than any other place I have ever seen.

Anyway, to answer your question and wit the caveat that this is referring to NA people on the rez who are poor:

I would have to say that most are not happy with the conditions they live in. I think that the system of entitlement has really hurt the NA population tremendously. I am not alone in these thoughts. I have had may discussions with my boss, who is Native American, about this and he 100% firmly believes that the present system is horrible and that the beat way for NA people to change things for the better is to get away from other people supporting them and to become self sufficient. I agree with him.

I cannot think of one person I have met who is poor on the rez likes the way they live. We constantly see the tribe trying to do things to make life better but most of the time it is a huge bust and money just disappears (which is a whole nother story). Many do not have the skills it takes to run a modern successful, profitable business, not to mention that profitable is a bit of a foreign subject as well..

OK, To wrap it up because I am bit short of time, No, the people on the rez are not satisfied with their condition at all. But getting out of the situation is a very difficult problem.

[Hoover]

1) What's the path of a successful NA then? Do they just go to school (is it like a normal public school), graduate & go on to college and leave the rez?

2) Also how do NAs feel about the movies Last of the Mohicans, Dances with Wolves, etc?

[Fishwhenican]

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1) What's the path of a successful NA then? Do they just go to school (is it like a normal public school), graduate & go on to college and leave the rez?

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There are several Public schools either on the rez or in towns nearby.

The school I work for is on the eastern boundry of the rez and is a private catholic school (K-12) that was established over 125 years ago to help the NA people in the area through education. Even though we are a private Catholic school we do not charge any sort of tuition, actually we send a lot of money back to the kids and the people on the rez through many different ways. We also have two smaller schools (K-8) farther out (90 & 135 miles away from here) on the Crow Reservation. We exist solely on donations received from people who support the mission. So ours is not a "regular" school by any means. The other schools are "normal" public schools.

I will use one of my good friends who is Northern Cheyenne as an example of a successful Native American. He grew up on the Rez in Busby MT and went to Public school in Hardin MT. He graduated and went to College in Missoula, University of Montana where he graduated with a degree in Finance. We then worked for several different places off of the reservation including the organization I work for. He lives in Billings, is married to a gal who is the principle of one of our schools on the Crow Rez, has two wonderful kids, has a beautiful house that they had built in a nice part of the Billings "Heights" and is going to school again working on his masters degree in finance.

I think most "successful" NA people around here followed a path very similar to him and unfortunately are the exception rather than the rule. I know he would prefer to be living on the res or out here in the country at least but his family is from the city and it would be hard to get them back out here now. I think that is true for a lot of the NA people in that they would prefer to be on the rez but there is so little opportunity to find gainful employment that it just doesn't happen. I know he has told me more than once that he wants to someday start a business on the rez.

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2) Also how do NAs feel about the movies Last of the Mohicans, Dances with Wolves, etc?

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It is hard to answer for MOST Native Americans but the ones I know are just kind of indifferent to most of that stuff. I personally have not talked to a lot of NA people where this has been a topic of discussion. I think that some movies they like and some they do not. I can tell you that on elk hunting trips where I have been with friends who are either Native or live on the reservation we will watch more stuff like "The Outlaw Josie Whales" and John Wayne westerns and stuff like that if we have access to a TV and VCR (ie.. if we take a camper along).

[Fishwhenican]

Interesting story about the Northern Cheyenne and goes back to the time when they were captured and interred at Fort Robinson, Nebraska. A group of them eventually escaped and ran back to Montana where their people remain today. The article is about an annual run where Northern Cheyenne youth run from Crawford, Neb to Busby MT honoring the memories of the people who escaped, somehow managed to survive and ran to Montana.

Here are some excerpts from the article.

"110 Northern Cheyenne youths who made this year's run. The event, started in 1996 by Phillip Whiteman Jr., and his family, commemorates the Jan. 9, 1879, escape of 150 Cheyenne people from wooden barracks at Fort Robinson, Neb."

"The outbreak is held as a key chapter in the Cheyenne's struggle and of their sacrifice to return to their homeland in 1879.

Mainly women and children, the group had been held without food, water or heat before they decided to risk death by escaping to return to Montana. Most were killed during the escape, but 26 fled into the hills and traveled 40 miles before the U.S. Calvary caught up and killed them. They were buried where they had sought cover, a place known at "The Last Hole." In 1993, the last of their remains were repatriated to Montana."

Others in the group managed to evade capture and made it to Montana. Just another example of what Native Americans went through many years ago in this country.

Here is a link to the entire article:
Warriors' Run