Rebuying/Reentering in Sahara daily tournaments?

[ShaneP]

Hi all,

I was going to Vegas with a friend and looking to play some lower buy in (but good structured) tourneys. Planning on the Sahara $62 and the Orleans noon tournies (as per the advice in another thread here). Some digging on the net about the Sahara showed that the sahara was a $42 with one $20 rebuy that everyone takes, so essentially that's a $62 tourney.

However, I found some other site that said something about alternates for the Sahara, and that players who bust out can re-enter, but their names would go to the end of the alternate list. What I was thinking with this is there would be enough tables opened to accommodate everyone, so there wouldn't actually be a waiting list, thus that rule would make the tourney like a (maybe more expensive) rebuy.

My questions are then: was that other web site correct about being able to re-enter (or is there actually a waiting list, so people can't plan on rebuying), and how it plays in terms of acting like a rebuy or no-rebuy tournament.

I'm going late this month (during the WSOP) if that makes any difference either way number of participant wise.

Thanks,

Shane

[bav]

The other web site was accurate. If you bust outta the Sahara tourneys in the first hour, you can go back up and hand over $42 and get right back in if there is no waiting list. There is not usually a waiting list when the tourney starts, but typically by about 7:15 there will be a few people waiting. Basically, they try hard to give everybody who is there at 7 or 11 a seat. Once the tourney starts, newcomers get seated if there are seats available, but once all the seats are full the waiting list begins.

I'd guess maybe half the folks who bust in the first hour buy back in. There are a couple players who sometimes play it like it's a cheap unlimited rebuy tourney, but for the most part I find it plays more like a no-rebuy event, especially if a waiting list forms early and holds--then you cannot instantly buy back in when you bust. The last 5 minutes of the tourney can sometimes play more like a rebuy as people with short stacks decide they don't want to go into the break broke, so they do the standard all-or-nothing on the last hand or two before the first break at the 1 hour mark, and rebuy if they lose.

The world record for Sahara buy-ins is something like 7 times, held by a Sahara dealer (who usually plays it like it's an unlimited rebuy event).

[Cactus Jack]

Everything Bav said. Some of these guys expect to rebuy because they are really bad. Bav, have you seen a good player buy back in?

There are usually over a hundred runners every evening. They pay six. Monster overlay. Most are just absolutely awful. The last time I played, I got run down by the same guy who hit his four-card straight on the river and later called a 4X raise and busted me with 10-6s when he floppped two tens. Typical of the local tourneys. If you run good, you can win a lot of money.

I'm something like 400% ROI on the Sahara tournaments.

(Damn, looking at that I'm wondering why I'm not playing them more often???)

[otter]

They take a pretty high percentage don't they?

[Diana Ross Fan]

[ QUOTE ]
Everything Bav said. Some of these guys expect to rebuy because they are really bad. Bav, have you seen a good player buy back in?

There are usually over a hundred runners every evening. They pay six. Monster overlay. Most are just absolutely awful. The last time I played, I got run down by the same guy who hit his four-card straight on the river and later called a 4X raise and busted me with 10-6s when he floppped two tens. Typical of the local tourneys. If you run good, you can win a lot of money.

I'm something like 400% ROI on the Sahara tournaments.

(Damn, looking at that I'm wondering why I'm not playing them more often???)

[/ QUOTE ]

I played it once in 05 and thought it was pretty tight. I figure it was attracting a lot of folks from 4. Do you guys think it is tight?

[ShaneP]

First, thanks all, I appreciate the information--it was exactly what I was looking for, I wanted to know and think about how to play before I got there. Didn't want to assume one thing and halfway through the first level or so realize people were doing something I wasn't expecting.

As far as the %age they take, the other (fairly random) website that I referred to earlier said that the Sahara returned 66% of the buyin, but they were only using a $42 buyin with a $15 fee as part of that. If everyone instantly rebuys for $20 more, it seems they return about 81%, which seems to be fairly consistant with other tournies of that length/buyin range. But I'm also making assumptions there, though it seems logical... (The Orleans one I was going to do as well was right at 81% as well).

Thanks again all,

Shane

[bav]

The $15 fee looks outrageous on AVP when you see the 66%, but once you count in the addon, which 95% of people do, it's not bad at all and is a smaller fraction than the Caesars 11pm event.

Sure I've seen good players bust and buy back. Lots of 'em. There's really no reason not to if you are playing well and either got cold-decked or some donkey 5-outted you on the river. If I bust in the first 30 minutes I usually buy back in. After that, often not. Fortunately it's not a decision I have to make all that often.

'Bout the only thing I don't like about the tourney is the very top-heavy payout. >40% goes to first (seems they basically aim for 40% but round up). 20% to second. 10% to third. The rest scattered out to the next 8 spots. They do usually pay 10 or 11 long as they have at least 10 or 12 tables, but 11th through 8th generally get back like $80, $100, $120, $140--you barely get your entry fee back if you just squeek into the money, and if you've bought back in you have to get to about 8th to break even. VERY top heavy.

I once asked "why so top heavy" and got a lecture about how 40/20/10 is THE standard tournament payout structure and anything else is wrong. ooookay. Basically I don't like it much because the variance is so large almost everybody wants to do deals (and I do, too). With a flatter structure, I like to play 'em out.

[pismeyer]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm something like 400% ROI on the Sahara tournaments.

(Damn, looking at that I'm wondering why I'm not playing them more often???)

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed... Damn...

P [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

[cow_phunk]

how many runners is this tourney attracting for the 11pm nowadays. anyone with specific thursday or weekend experience?

[RR]

[ QUOTE ]
I once asked "why so top heavy" and got a lecture about how 40/20/10 is THE standard tournament payout structure and anything else is wrong.

[/ QUOTE ]

This used to be very common. I think a lot of casinos like a top heavy payout both to advertise a larger first place (I think "what does it pay" is the most asked question when someone new is deciding if they should play a poker tournament) and it encourages deal making so they can get it over with sooner.