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#81
07-19-2007, 03:56 AM
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Re: Almost in a bar fight and called a Racist!
The police depts. should make their non-emergency numbers more accessible if they want them called rather than 911. Those numbers can be hard to track down.
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#82
07-19-2007, 10:49 AM
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Re: Almost in a bar fight and called a Racist!
Possibly. As I read the story though she was very patient with the man. She put up with his abusive behavior for quite some time, then repeatedly gave him the option to leave before she called the police. Could she have silently allowed him to carry on like a jerk? Well, it sounds like she did for some time. However, no bartender is obligated to allow a customer to be insulting to him/her or the other customers. The fact that this guy's relatives think he was totally in the wrong is quite telling. Even the customer, when he finally came to his senses, seems to understand that he was in the wrong.
Whenever there is conflict, there's always the possibility that the party in the "right" could have done more to avoid the conflict. That doesn't make them in the wrong, though if/when the conflict takes place. They clearly weren't egging him on, which is what your post would seem to imply. They just got tired of taking his crap and decided not to anymore. Given that you feel it could have been handled better, how would you have responded differently? Keep in mind, you've been the only person waiting on an entire bar, you're tired, your feet hurt, and a drunk guy who has been insulting you repeatedly asks you to get him a napkin when he has some right in front of him. It's possible that by sitting down with him and asking what's bothering him she might have disarmed the situation. I think that would be asking a lot of her given the circumstances. [ QUOTE ] That still doesn't change their roll in escalating this. Sorry, but this all could've been handled better. b [/ QUOTE ]
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#83
07-19-2007, 11:20 AM
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Re: Almost in a bar fight and called a Racist!
[ QUOTE ]
Possibly. As I read the story though she was very patient with the man. She put up with his abusive behavior for quite some time, then repeatedly gave him the option to leave before she called the police. Could she have silently allowed him to carry on like a jerk? Well, it sounds like she did for some time. However, no bartender is obligated to allow a customer to be insulting to him/her or the other customers. The fact that this guy's relatives think he was totally in the wrong is quite telling. Even the customer, when he finally came to his senses, seems to understand that he was in the wrong. Whenever there is conflict, there's always the possibility that the party in the "right" could have done more to avoid the conflict. That doesn't make them in the wrong, though if/when the conflict takes place. They clearly weren't egging him on, which is what your post would seem to imply. They just got tired of taking his crap and decided not to anymore. Given that you feel it could have been handled better, how would you have responded differently? Keep in mind, you've been the only person waiting on an entire bar, you're tired, your feet hurt, and a drunk guy who has been insulting you repeatedly asks you to get him a napkin when he has some right in front of him. It's possible that by sitting down with him and asking what's bothering him she might have disarmed the situation. I think that would be asking a lot of her given the circumstances. [ QUOTE ] That still doesn't change their roll in escalating this. Sorry, but this all could've been handled better. b [/ QUOTE ] [/ QUOTE ] Just some additional clarification. If it were JUST the napkin thing and he would have just bitched at my wife(the bartender) and STFU nothing else would have happened. She was done with him at that point. But, he kept flapping his mouth and making a huge scene with his huge racist rant. In fairness, I was the one who finally had enough of his racist rant and told him that it had nothing to do with race. Maybe I shouldn't have done that. But, in my mind he was just going to keep it up and I was tired of hearing racism being blamed for everything going on right then when it was simply a matter of his being an a-hole. He then focused the argument to me and my friend sitting next to me and no matter how many times we tried to explain to him that he was being an a-hole, rude and obnoxious he just kept running his mouth more and and getting more and more agitated. My wife, the bartender saw that this had the potential to get ugly and stepped in and told this guy the he needed to leave and if he didn't leave she was calling the cops to get him out. If he would have swung at me, my friend or my wife he would have been pummeled. Realistically she saved his butt from a severe beating by kicking him out. He had one friend there with him and the rest of the people in the bar were either friends or ours (including my friends son-in-law) or people who were likely going to stay out of it no matter what. She gave him several warning to get out and after at least 5 minutes of telling him he needed to leave she finally called the cops. He was not going to go and he wasn't going to stop his rant until he either got into a fight or the cops showed up. The only reason he even left them was because his buddy convinced him to get out of there and that even took some doing on his part. LouBlue, I like your post, thank you, but realistically sitting down with this guy and having a therapy session at this point was not an option. That was pretty much what I was trying to do when I first told him it was nothing to do with race and that sure didn't work.
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#84
07-19-2007, 12:41 PM
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Re: Almost in a bar fight and called a Racist!
FWIW this thread really demonstrates the urban/rural divide in this country.
Fish, I can't see any problem in the way this situation was handled. Your wife had no obligation to put up with the crap of a drunk troublemaker, gave him every opportunity to get out of the situation, then did the only logical thing, call in the authorities. My only criticism would be that she accept his apology, whether heartfelt or prompted by his family, though I agree she has the right to request it be done outside her other place of employment. Also, calling 911 is standard in this situation in a rural area.
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#85
07-19-2007, 01:34 PM
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Re: Almost in a bar fight and called a Racist!
[ QUOTE ]
The police depts. should make their non-emergency numbers more accessible if they want them called rather than 911. Those numbers can be hard to track down. [/ QUOTE ] The police department doesn't publish the phone book. However, the phone books I see have their pages divided so that you can get to the government numbers right away. Anyway, it's different being a "civilian" and a professional. At least in larger cities where I live, it's the manager's responsibility to give employees the emergency information and phone numbers they need.
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#86
07-19-2007, 02:44 PM
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Re: Almost in a bar fight and called a Racist!
[ QUOTE ]
Given that you feel it could have been handled better, how would you have responded differently? Keep in mind, you've been the only person waiting on an entire bar, you're tired, your feet hurt, and a drunk guy who has been insulting you repeatedly asks you to get him a napkin when he has some right in front of him. [/ QUOTE ] This really isn't that tough. I'd have booted him. I sure wouldn't let another patron, even if it's my hubby, start saying stuff and potentially escalating it. I'd tell hubs to cool it, and if need be, call the cops to get him out of there. Sometimes you just have to pick up a phone and act like you're calling and they'll leave. When 2 guys are going at it like that in a bar, arguing and being disruptive, as a bartender, you're losing control of your bar at that moment. [ QUOTE ] They clearly weren't egging him on, which is what your post would seem to imply. They just got tired of taking his crap and decided not to anymore. [/ QUOTE ] They weren't egging it, they helped escalate it. There's a difference. There isn't a reason to get into a racial debate with some drunk in a bar. Just figure he's an idiot and get him out of there. Why does there need to be anything said to him about his 'topic'? b
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#87
07-19-2007, 02:50 PM
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Re: Almost in a bar fight and called a Racist!
[ QUOTE ]
But, in my mind he was just going to keep it up and I was tired of hearing racism being blamed for everything going on right then when it was simply a matter of his being an a-hole. He then focused the argument to me and my friend sitting next to me and no matter how many times we tried to explain to him that he was being an a-hole, rude and obnoxious he just kept running his mouth more and and getting more and more agitated. [/ QUOTE ] Was this your first time dealing with a drunk moron in a bar? [ QUOTE ] If he would have swung at me, my friend or my wife he would have been pummeled. Realistically she saved his butt from a severe beating by kicking him out. He had one friend there with him and the rest of the people in the bar were either friends or ours (including my friends son-in-law) or people who were likely going to stay out of it no matter what. [/ QUOTE ] Big whoop. So you'd have beat a drunk idiots ass. [ QUOTE ] but realistically sitting down with this guy and having a therapy session at this point was not an option. [/ QUOTE ] I agree. You don't sit and have a heart to heart with him. You boot him. When you tell him to leave, you don't tell him more than 1 more time. b
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#88
07-19-2007, 02:50 PM
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Re: Almost in a bar fight and called a Racist!
Since the Sheriff took care of this situation, is there even a police station in Fish's town? Sheriff's are generally county, and police local. If the city does not have a police, then they hire sheriffs. West Hollywood comes to mind.
Sounds like the kind of place that you would be just as well to put Dunkin' Donuts on the speed dial.
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#89
07-19-2007, 04:47 PM
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Re: Almost in a bar fight and called a Racist!
[ QUOTE ]
Since the Sheriff took care of this situation, is there even a police station in Fish's town? Sheriff's are generally county, and police local. If the city does not have a police, then they hire sheriffs. West Hollywood comes to mind. Sounds like the kind of place that you would be just as well to put Dunkin' Donuts on the speed dial. [/ QUOTE ] There is a very small sheriff's office in town, no local police. The deputies have to cover a pretty large area and the is usually only one officer on duty at any given time. There were two this night because one of the three officers we have is brand new and in training. Interesting note. IF the guy who got kicked out had gone just about 1/2 mile east and hit the reservation line the sherrif's deputies would likely not have been able to touch him. He would have been in BIA juristiction.
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#90
07-19-2007, 05:34 PM
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Re: Almost in a bar fight and called a Racist!
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] But, in my mind he was just going to keep it up and I was tired of hearing racism being blamed for everything going on right then when it was simply a matter of his being an a-hole. He then focused the argument to me and my friend sitting next to me and no matter how many times we tried to explain to him that he was being an a-hole, rude and obnoxious he just kept running his mouth more and and getting more and more agitated. [/ QUOTE ] Was this your first time dealing with a drunk moron in a bar? [/ QUOTE ] Hummm... Interesting question. At first I was going to quickly say "well of course not" but after I think about it, I really cannot recall any time I have ever had to personally deal with someone who was being this big of a moron where I actually thought a fight might happen. Well, maybe one other time but that one was easy. My ex-wife was poking this huge dude in the chest who was being a jerk and it looked like he was actually going to pop her. So I stepped in and told him if he wanted to dance we could go outside and dance but I was going to do everything I could to kill him. I told him that as big as he was I would probably really get hurt if we messed around pushing and shoving and that really didn't sound good to me. I then told him, on the other hand we could go over to the bar and get a beer and laugh about this if he wanted. The guy laughed and we went and had a beer and no more trouble was had that night. In retrospect, as big a bitch as my ex turned out to be, I should have let him pop her. The absolute last thing I want to do when I am in a bar or anywhere else for that matter is get in a fight. I am a lover not a fighter. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] If he would have swung at me, my friend or my wife he would have been pummeled. Realistically she saved his butt from a severe beating by kicking him out. He had one friend there with him and the rest of the people in the bar were either friends or ours (including my friends son-in-law) or people who were likely going to stay out of it no matter what. [/ QUOTE ] Big whoop. So you'd have beat a drunk idiots ass. [/ QUOTE ] I think you missed my point. It wouldn't even have likely been me beating the drunk idiots ass. It would likely have been a larger group beating his ass and physically throwing him out. [ QUOTE ] but realistically sitting down with this guy and having a therapy session at this point was not an option. [/ QUOTE ] I agree. You don't sit and have a heart to heart with him. You boot him. When you tell him to leave, you don't tell him more than 1 more time. b [/ QUOTE ]
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