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  #1  
Old 08-06-2006, 07:11 AM
bav bav is offline
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Default Pot pushed the wrong way, quick chip ditch attempt

'Fraid this tale is long. I tried to trim it back, but it's still way too wordy but it's late and I'm gonna let it fly...

I'm playing NL1/2 at Caesars LV at a wacky and wonderful table when this hand ruins it all. We have two UCSB friends playing in the 2 and 4 seats, 4 Danish friends playing in the 10-seat, 7-seat, and two others.

4-seat UCSB goes all-in after the flop for about $70 and gets three callers. At the river the 7-seat Dane flips over T7 on a board of 346Q5 for a straight. 4-seat flips over JTo for jack-high. And nobody is paying attention as the dealer pushed the main pot to JTo--they're busy yaking about what a suckout master the 7-seat is. Suddenly the 7-seat looks up and the pot is missing and the cards are being mixed. 4 of us on our end of the table explain to the dealer that the 7-seat had a straight and the dealer calls the floor.

Before the floor arrives suddenly there's a new pile of chips appearing in front of the 2-seat. I didn't see it happen, but the 7-seat and 10-seat claimed to be watching as the guy in the 4-seat who currently had posession of the pot had slide a large stack of reds over to his friend in the 2-seat.

So the floor comes over. The pot being pushed the wrong way is explained. Floor asks the 4-seat "do you agree the pot should not have gone to you?" and 4-seat says yes. Floor says "give this man the chips" and the 4-seat pushes them out.

Now folks explain the 4-seat gave a pile of chips to the 2-seat. "How many," asks the floor. The two Danish friends who saw it say "a full stack". 4-seat says "$30". 2-seat who got the chips says "I don't know" (yeahright). ok... Floor orders the 2-seat to give the 7-seat $30. (Nobody knows how much was in the main pot; for whatever reason no player nor the dealer claim to be able to recreate the betting.)

Now the 7-seat explodes. Floor tries to calm him and explains he will have the cameras check it all out, but it's Saturday night and it will be at least an hour, maybe two before he hears back. 7-seat demands it be resolved immediately or he's leaving!

This continues and ultimately destroys one of the juiciest 1/2 tables I've been on in weeks. Total donk fest for a couple hours, and now instantly it's toast. 7-seat, who's been raising 50% of hands and calling almost any reraise (and calling down to hit inside straight draws) is refusing to play until he gets his $70. Other three Danes are quitting. Insane constantly-rebuying calling station lady is PO'd because the bad bad floor is picking on the 4-seat by saying "sir, could I talk to you privately, please"--in response to that she shrieked at the floor to leave the kid alone and took her chips and stormed off. Moronic cheating 4-seat is busted and likely won't be back. 2-seat is MIA, though his chips are on the table.

I gave up and left, so I don't know how it all got resolved. 2-seat and 4-seat were missing. I think the floor musta pulled the two of them off somewhere, cause I couldn't find the floor or either player as the smoke was clearing.

What seems highly likely is the 4-seat knew he had unjustly been pushed the pot. He was initially hoping it'd go unnoticed. Soon as someone said something and he realized he was going to lose it he attempted to dump $100 to his friend, but someone saw it happen.

I woulda stayed all night at that table if those players had stuck around. Interesting end to it all, though.
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  #2  
Old 08-06-2006, 01:08 PM
mblax10 mblax10 is offline
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Default Re: Pot pushed the wrong way, quick chip ditch attempt

Was their nobody in the 3 seat seeing a stack of red being transfered from the 4 seat to the 2?

I don't understand why seat 7 needs this resolved immedieatly. I've only been at a table once when the hand had to be reviewed by cameras. It was early AM at the end of a long 10-20 session, so I don't remember the hand details. Older bad player in seat 8 is just about all-in on the river and shows two pair. Seat 4 shows a larger two pair (I think the old guy was counterfeited on the river). Pot is wrongly pushed to the old guy. Cards are flipped over and the dealer begins shuffiling. Another player who's now in about his 35th hour of the session comments that he thought seat 4 had the best hand. I think about it (I'm about 20 hours into the session) and agree that seat 4 made the best hand on the river. Nobody else noticed, including seat 4, because the table is a nice mixture of donks and drunks.

Floor is called and says he'll ask security to review the tape. Old guy keeps playing with the chips from that pot. About half an hour later floor comes back and explains the board and that seat 4 had the best hand. Security said the pot was about $180, and the old guy must give that amount to seat 4. Old guy now only has $165 left and says "This is all I have left, I'm not giving it up." Floor explains the pot wasn't his and he has to give seat 4 his chips. Old guy is not happy and storms off. Floor asks seat 4 if he is ok with the resolution only getting $165 and he says he is. I have no idea what would've happened if seat 4 demanded the remaining $15.
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  #3  
Old 08-06-2006, 01:17 PM
AngusThermopyle AngusThermopyle is offline
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Default Re: Pot pushed the wrong way, quick chip ditch attempt

[ QUOTE ]

I don't understand why seat 7 needs this resolved immedieatly.

.... Old guy now only has $65 left and .... I have no idea what would've happened if seat 4 demanded the remaining $115.

[/ QUOTE ]

Now do you see why?
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  #4  
Old 08-06-2006, 01:23 PM
RR RR is offline
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Default Re: Pot pushed the wrong way, quick chip ditch attempt

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

I don't understand why seat 7 needs this resolved immedieatly.

.... Old guy now only has $65 left and .... I have no idea what would've happened if seat 4 demanded the remaining $115.

[/ QUOTE ]

Now do you see why?

[/ QUOTE ]

The normal thing to do is to impound the pot if an issue needs to be resovled by watching tapes.
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  #5  
Old 08-06-2006, 01:26 PM
AKQJ10 AKQJ10 is offline
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Default Re: Pot pushed the wrong way, quick chip ditch attempt

Sad to see a good game break up like that.

I guess it sounds churlish if I say that the silver lining is, it shouldn't be hard to find another $1-2 game just that good.
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  #6  
Old 08-06-2006, 01:50 PM
steamraise steamraise is offline
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Default Re: Pot pushed the wrong way, quick chip ditch attempt

[ QUOTE ]
Cards are flipped over and the dealer begins shuffiling. Another player who's now in about his 35th hour of the session comments that he thought seat 4 had the best hand. I think about it (I'm about 20 hours into the session) and agree that seat 4 made the best hand on the river. Nobody else noticed, including seat 4,

[/ QUOTE ]

Why wouldn't you speak up when you see the best hand being
mucked? If I'm old guy I'm feeling pretty hosed right now.
2 guys 20 and 35 hours at the table decide the pot went
the wrong way. Old guy didn't see that he was beat, dealer
didn't see it, rest of table didn't see it. Unless the
floor shows me the tape proving I was beat I feel screwed.
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  #7  
Old 08-06-2006, 02:14 PM
AngusThermopyle AngusThermopyle is offline
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Default Re: Pot pushed the wrong way, quick chip ditch attempt

[ QUOTE ]


The normal thing to do is to impound the pot if an issue needs to be resovled by watching tapes.

[/ QUOTE ]

I know. But in this can result in two seats sitting out, awaiting the outcome.

[ QUOTE ]
Floor tries to calm him and explains he will have the cameras check it all out, but it's Saturday night and it will be at least an hour, maybe two before he hears back.

[/ QUOTE ]

But two hours? Come on. Let's face it. UCSB kids -- semi-regular visitors. Danes -- first timers. UCSB kids admit making a scumbag move. Floor wants to cut the scumbags slack. Guess who's been tipping the floor?
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  #8  
Old 08-06-2006, 05:38 PM
bav bav is offline
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Default Re: Pot pushed the wrong way, quick chip ditch attempt

[ QUOTE ]
But two hours? Come on. Let's face it. UCSB kids -- semi-regular visitors. Danes -- first timers. UCSB kids admit making a scumbag move. Floor wants to cut the scumbags slack. Guess who's been tipping the floor?

[/ QUOTE ]

These were not guys I recall ever seeing in Vegas before (not that I remember everybody I play with). And neither were likely to have slipped the floor a farthing. I'll ask you what I asked one of the noisy Danes demanding immediate restitution. "What do you want the floor to do?" You've got the kid without any money saying he gave his friend $30. His friend claims no knowledge of the size of the gift, but has about $140 in front of him including the $30. No impartial observer claims to have seen the chips transfer (REALLY wish I'd been watching that rather than looking around to see where the floor was).

So we are pretty certain the 4-seat is a cheating, thieving SOB--but he's busted out and has no more chips to impound. 2-seat is an accomplice of some sort, but didn't exactly ask for this to happen to him. This whole "I don't know how much he gave me" routine is pretty sad and not at all believable, but... what do you do?

I suspect the floor took the two of 'em in the back room and explained a few things to them. Whether they ever came clean I don't know. Whether the Dane ever got restitution I don't know.

Oddly enough I took an immediate dislike to UCSB Seat2 when he sat down. He started out insulting the whole table... you see, he'd just come out of Pure, and the rest of us were total losers because we hadn't. And he told us all about his last trip the Greek isles. And he explained how he had been accepted to grad school at UCLA, which is the number 4 school in his major. All in the first 5 minutes. But hey... he sucked at poker so his money was welcome. His 4-seat friend had been waiting for a while to play but had only been sitting maybe 10 minutes and had been fairly quiet so until he tried to steal a few reds I hadn't formed any opinions of him.
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  #9  
Old 08-06-2006, 05:52 PM
AngusThermopyle AngusThermopyle is offline
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Default Re: Pot pushed the wrong way, quick chip ditch attempt

[ QUOTE ]
I'll ask you what I asked one of the noisy Danes demanding immediate restitution. "What do you want the floor to do?"

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd ask the floor..."If there was a question of a player shorting a chiprunner/cashier/dealer $70, would it take two hours to check the tapes?"
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  #10  
Old 08-06-2006, 05:57 PM
RR RR is offline
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Default Re: Pot pushed the wrong way, quick chip ditch attempt

[ QUOTE ]
But two hours? Come on. Let's face it. UCSB kids -- semi-regular visitors. Danes -- first timers. UCSB kids admit making a scumbag move. Floor wants to cut the scumbags slack. Guess who's been tipping the floor?

[/ QUOTE ]

To actually review tapes take a long time. I think most "tape reviews" involve no tapes being watched. There was one time I had to call survelience for info about a pot size. It was on a slow Sun afternoon and still took close to an hour from the time I was called ot the table until I was off the phone with them.
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