WTF? this is still funny

[RichGangi]

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limp/calling with aces and then getting your money in when drawing semi dead is not a good way to win at poker

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Limp/calling as opposed to what? Would you suggest a strong raise as the first action?

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Yes.

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There is no such thing as drawing semi dead - I think you just made that up.

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Are you serious?

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Obviously if he had X-Ray vision and could see the other players cards then he wouldn't have called - unless he could also see that the next card was going to be an ace. But he had an overpair and no way of knowing that he was behind. Would you always fold AA post flop if there was no ace on the flop - after all your opponent may have just flopped a set and you only have 2 outs to win.

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Sorry man, but you are very very dumb.

[RichGangi]

I dont mind his limp, but once CKH raises out of the BB its time to rr big. This way, you either take it down right there(not a bad result, btw) or play a big pot as a favorite . Even his buddy PG was saying 'WTF did he limp/call 60k with?'. Thats just a bad play, bottom line.

[streetz]

but once CKH raises out of the BB its time to rr big

no, you rr small because this is short-stack poker and there is no hand other than AA that villain can have that gives him proper odds to call your AA preflop. some might think small rr might gives your AA away but in today's donkament people are miniraising AJ all over the place. if he'not calling small, he's never calling big rr, and yes, we do want action w/ AA.

the reason we must rr preflop here is because we want pot bigger and to play AA heads-up, not 3 handed. calling w/ AA is retarded and rafe furst donkey sucked his way into a miracle bracelet. he didn't win did he?

[KiwiMark]

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no, you rr small because this is short-stack poker and there is no hand other than AA that villain can have that gives him proper odds to call your AA preflop. some might think small rr might gives your AA away but in today's donkament people are miniraising AJ all over the place. if he'not calling small, he's never calling big rr, and yes, we do want action w/ AA.

the reason we must rr preflop here is because we want pot bigger and to play AA heads-up, not 3 handed. calling w/ AA is retarded and rafe furst donkey sucked his way into a miracle bracelet. he didn't win did he?

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Well Rafe did get a flop heads up as an 88% favourite and in position, he hadn't shown any real strength so maybe Hua could throw a bet out to see where he is. If Rafe is super lucky Hua has QT and pairing the queen makes him think he has the best hand. Clearly Rafe knows that if Hua has a 7 then he is in big trouble, but with 2 on the board it is less likely that his opponent has one (if he was unlucky enough to see the pot 4 handed he would have been more scared that someone may have the 7). When Hua bet post flop less than half the pot it really wasn't super strong, I don't know how anyone could expect Rafe to know that he was being trapped instead of him doing the trapping - from his perspective Hua could have a queen or could have just been taking a stab. When Hua checked after the turn Rafe may have thought that he had extracted as much money as he could and that Hua had nothing at all - so he made a small value bet in the hopes that Hua might put a bit more in. When Hua raised him all in what could Hua have? A bluff? QJ? Do you really think Hua would never have check raised Rafe in that spot with KQ or a complete bluff? If Hua had KQ then Rafe was winning and Hua only had 2 outs with one card to come - Rafe would have been expecting to win when he called and so would any of you in the same position.

It's pretty easy to say that it was obvious that Hua raised with 72o and had made trips on the flop, but that's because the little on-screen graphic lets us see that's what happened. From Rafe's perspective there was no clue that his AA was no good until Hua turned his cards over. Check the reaction of Phil Gordon - when he saw the AA he thought his friend was winning and started to celebrate, not till his saw Hua's hand did he think Hua had a 7.

Check the comments throughout Youtube and this forum - everyone that has the benefit of seeing all the holecards knows how badly all the pros are playing their hands. Poker is such an easy game when you know everyones hands and even easier in hindsight after seeing the results.

[kemystery]

sick ANALYSIS here:
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Rafe is really good at Roshimbo, which is all about playing the player, about thinking "one level deeper" than your opponent. He should have realized that his opponent in this case would have given up his hand strength if Rafe had just RAISED on the flop, knowing it was possible his limp preflop allowed him to play, for example, 87s or 76s (or of course pocket 77) -- so it was a bad smooth-call on the flop that really was the cause of the self-trap (ignoring the 2-outer on the riv)

[m_reed05]

I'm getting dumber by the second.

[JokersAttack]

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ur moran

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I think you must be levelling. Unless you have been under the impression that what we see on TV is what the players see?

I'll explain it to you just in case you are mentally challenged - Even though we can see the hole cards each player has, the players only know their own hole cards. This means that Rafe did not know that his opponent had made trip sevens. In fact the BB raised which made it hard to put him on 72, it was more likely that he had paired the queen giving him queens and sevens which Rafe could beat with his aces and sevens.

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in poker we use bets as well as a myriad of other tools to gauge the strength of our opponents hand and react accordingly.

sklansky's theorem of poker states that to play poker well, we must try to play as we would if our opponent's hole cards were revealed, and attempt to make our opponents play the opposite of what they would if our own were revealed.

rafe furst totally veiled the strength of his hand and was thus unable to determine when/if he was beat. This isn't good poker. This was his own fault. No, we don't expect him to be able to see his opponent's hole cards, but by betting for information he is able to make a better determination.

he played the hand horribly, got his money in drawing to two outs. This is not what we try to achieve in poker, and alot of better players would have been able to avoid this by either a) jamming it preflop, b) actually betting for information and giving themselves a chance to get away should they be beat.

if you like his play you are bad, which I had no doubt you are anyway.

thankyou morans.

[caught_clean]

KiwiMark

You fold Ace 7 of diamonds in the sb and complete after 40 limpers. The flop comes 7 7 jack with 2 clubs and you?

[ ] bet 3/4 the pot, lets build a pot with a strong hand and perhaps people will put us on a jack.

[ ] Check! SLOOOOWTARP TAKE IT EAAAASSAAY

[KiwiMark]

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KiwiMark

You fold Ace 7 of diamonds in the sb and complete after 40 limpers. The flop comes 7 7 jack with 2 clubs and you?

[ ] bet 3/4 the pot, lets build a pot with a strong hand and perhaps people will put us on a jack.

[ ] Check! SLOOOOWTARP TAKE IT EAAAASSAAY

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What kind of idiotic question is that? What is my chipstack, what a my opponents chipstacks, how likely are my opponents to call with worse hands, if I check how likely is it that someone will bluff with nothing? What is my table image?

[KiwiMark]

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rafe furst totally veiled the strength of his hand and was thus unable to determine when/if he was beat. This isn't good poker. This was his own fault. No, we don't expect him to be able to see his opponent's hole cards, but by betting for information he is able to make a better determination.

he played the hand horribly, got his money in drawing to two outs. This is not what we try to achieve in poker, and alot of better players would have been able to avoid this by either a) jamming it preflop, b) actually betting for information and giving themselves a chance to get away should they be beat.

if you like his play you are bad, which I had no doubt you are anyway.

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If you think that he made a big mistake risking a flop heads up as an 88% favourite than could you explain why that is so bad? Are you always scared of flops when holding AA? If you think that he should have raised post-flop then what amount would you suggest? How much could he raise without being pot committed? After the flop Hua bet $55K, if Rafe raised the minimum of $55K then Hua pushed all-in - can Rafe fold an overpair when he is getting better than 4 to 1 on his money to call?

I am not too sure that I like his play, or that he likes his play. I agree that normally you would like to either raise pre-flop or limp/raise. I agree that you would normally like to raise post-flop to see where your at.

I think that in this particular situation he could not raise post-flop to see where he was at. If he put in a raise then he would have been committed to call all in if Hua pushed. Why does no one look deeper than just the cards? Does no one understand why Rafe might decide to play the dangerous way because he was short stacked and was willing to risk someone drawing out on him in an attempt to double up? After the flop he was either ahead or behind, but he was committed to his play because he had good cards and too many chips already in the pot. IF his opponent hand a seven (or QQ)he was beat, but if not he called post-flop in good shape with the biggest risk being Hua hitting a 2 outer to overtake his hand (if Hua actually had anything, against a bluff he was even better off). After the flop Hua bet $55k into a pot of ~$140k, the only way Rafe can get off his hand is to assume Hua must have trips (or a full house) and fold. As soon as Rafe calls or raises he is pot committed, if Hua is bluffing then a raise would take the pot down, but if Hua IS bluffing then Rafe risks little to let Hua see another card and maybe Hua will bluff the turn too. If Hua bluffed post-flop then he cannot win unless he gets runner runner, that would be a risk Rafe is willing to take.

In short betting for information is complete bull in this case. Pre-flop he needs no informations, he KNOWS he has the best hand and is a big favourite. Post-flop he lacks the chips to bet for information, just calling the small post-flop bet commits him to the pot, if he is going to raise he might as well just push all in. Pushing all in does not help him make money, his best chance of maximizing his EV is to call.