new live 5-5 plo game at bike...big hand

[limon]

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Limon, when you bet the turn were you betting for value or as a bluff?

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i actually put the utg player on top 2 on the flop and the button on aces w/ a weak backup draw. i felt the button would bet flop bigger and re-raise the flop w/ an overpair/draw combo because the utg player was so loose/strange. based on my reads i probably should have re-popped the flop. when the turn comes i feel im winning but not by much so i bet because i think the button will check and free cards here are death.

[limon]

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Something i'll add is that, in the game as described, I would raise this hand from the co (at least something), but I would seriously consider folding to the 3bet from the button. We no longer have the betting lead, and we are playing OOP not only with a hand we know isn't the best, but that isn't going to hit many flops. Playing big pots deep oop without the betting lead is very very rarely +ev.

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interesting, i sort of like this...but i feel the button becuase he is a passive player has defined his hand and playing against a defined hand is a great situation w/ any 4 cards no?

[limon]

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Fold preflop, as igg said hard to get the nuts, and u cant stack off with bottom set happily oterwise. + The hand leaves u in nasty spots like this where you have no cluw what to do. Esp this deep. The downside if being oversetted if u are 100-200bb deep live isnt that bad, and you can play your sets much more strongly.

Generally i need JJxx or bether to play for set, but I obvs play 8875, 9910J stuff too.

Turn is a bluff. You bet when the most obvs draw hits.

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seems like people here are obsessed w/ playing pots w/ only the nuts...is this because the online games have gotten so tough/tight? if you were to watch this game for an hour i think you would see that playing only for the nuts and not using situations and hand reading would cost you alot of money ...although it would save you alot of headaches as well.

EXAMPLE POT...13k got in on the flop, one player had aajk the other 3456 on a flop of Q44

[gordo16]

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When the button calls the flop I would put him a draw like 100%. I would toss AAragrag quickly here in his position. Furthermore, just because he 3bets pf, that shouldn't necessarily mean he has a high pair. With deep stacks it's better to 3bet good drawing hands than high pairs. That said, I would play it very slowly when the turn hits, because that is that card means the most likely draw for the button has hit. I would check and re-evaluate, probably c-f.

EDIT: I have assumed you're playing thinking opponents, if these live games are full of donkeys it makes things different ofc. However, I would still put BTN on a straight a lot so check turn.

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QFT, especially prior to the edit

[iggymcfly]

One thing that I didn't catch because of the narrative form of the HH is that this is a 3-bet pot. If so, I think going for a check/raise on the flop is actually perfectly standard; it's not bad at all, and we can't read quite as much strength out of the C/R in front of us. I still think the turn lead's bad though.

Also, on the preflop play, it's not that you have to only play the nuts. I certainly don't do that online. I play a very aggro game and push a lot of slim edges. But when you play a hand like 5332 that regularly makes a lot 2nd nut straights and 3rd-best sets, I really don't think it can be played profitably.

And yes, I understand the difference between live and online play. I do open my game up a little bit live and play more hands, both because the players are worse, and just because it's so darn boring waiting 5 minutes until the next decision, but I still think 5332's going to get you in trouble way too much to be profitable.

[pete fabrizio]

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Something i'll add is that, in the game as described, I would raise this hand from the co (at least something), but I would seriously consider folding to the 3bet from the button. We no longer have the betting lead, and we are playing OOP not only with a hand we know isn't the best, but that isn't going to hit many flops. Playing big pots deep oop without the betting lead is very very rarely +ev.

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i would fold to the pf raise, and i think playing small pair hands deep and oop is generally bad, but i'm not sure the "betting lead" is all that valuable in those spots. if button and utg were both loose-aggressive, i'd call a button 3-bet in the middle with a lot of pretty speculative hands, expecting to have it bet and raised back to me a lot of times when I flop big.

[JB_Dawg]

please discuss the game - when did it go and what do you think will be the schedule in the future? was there a catalyst or just a bunch of LA NL tards deciding PLO looks cool? God i'd liek to get in there.

[limon]

wall to wall tards. it goes in association w/ the bikes plo tournamnents. it wont last long imo.

[limon]

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One thing that I didn't catch because of the narrative form of the HH is that this is a 3-bet pot. If so, I think going for a check/raise on the flop is actually perfectly standard; it's not bad at all, and we can't read quite as much strength out of the C/R in front of us. I still think the turn lead's bad though.

Also, on the preflop play, it's not that you have to only play the nuts. I certainly don't do that online. I play a very aggro game and push a lot of slim edges. But when you play a hand like 5332 that regularly makes a lot 2nd nut straights and 3rd-best sets, I really don't think it can be played profitably.

And yes, I understand the difference between live and online play. I do open my game up a little bit live and play more hands, both because the players are worse, and just because it's so darn boring waiting 5 minutes until the next decision, but I still think 5332's going to get you in trouble way too much to be profitable.

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in the situation described i wasnt really "playing" 2335 i was just playing position in a heads up pot and then got bushwacked by the button. i would like to hear more about whether you (and others) would fold to the rr after the utg calls. it seems to me im in an ok spot to win a decent pot on the flop if i flop good and can get it heads up against the pfr...do you think this situation is too infrequent to continue w/ the hand? this might be getting to player dependent and entering the "it depends" zone.

[RoundTower]

if the button is really bad I call here with any 4 I raised with.