LO8 2/4 hand - Donk Raise on River?

mcpst17 · #1 11-22-2007, 10:52 AM

Poker Stars
Limit Omaha Ring game
Limit: $2/$4
6 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is Button with 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
UTG (poster) checks, UTG+1, folds, CO (poster) checks, Hero calls, SB calls, BB (poster) checks.

Flop: 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (5SB, 5 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG checks, CO bets, Hero calls, SB calls, BB raises, UTG folds, CO calls, Hero calls, SB calls.

Turn: 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (6.5BB, 4 players)
SB checks, BB bets, CO calls, Hero calls, SB calls.

River: T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (10.5BB, 4 players)
SB checks, BB bets, CO calls, Hero raises, SB folds, BB 3-bets, CO folds, Hero calls.

Results:
Final pot: 17.5BB

Comments on all streets welcome but is it better to call or raise river?

Game has been playing very passively so far with some pretty weak one way hands being shown down.

Preflop
I decided to limp pre-flop (2 posters and bb were already in) since I was not concerned about a preflop raise and had position.

Flop/Turn
Based on my reads I was confident that only button had 23. I also was confident that BB did not have a hand that contained an A since he probably would have raised pre-flop with so many limpers.

River
I raised on the river to knock out SB and with the hope that bb would reraise and knock out CO. Plan went as expected but I am not sure I thought through the play fully. I as hoping 7's were good a percentage of the time to win the high. I had to put in an extra 2bb, vs. just calling, if my plan went as expected. If I get quartered then I lose 1.5bb of the extra 2bb I put in. If my 7’s are good I win 6.75 (8.75 – half of pot less my extra 2bb). My plan has to work a little more that 1 out of 4.5 times. Do you think my 7’s are good greater than 1 out of 4.5 times?

Happy Thanksgiving!!

Buzz · #2 11-22-2007, 11:43 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Comments on all streets welcome but is it better to call or raise river?

[/ QUOTE ]Hi mcpst17 - Fold on the first betting round.

If you continue, then of course you'll continue after the flop and then after the turn and then on the river.

I'd simply call on the river because there's no realistic way to promote your hand into a winner for high. Call and collect your share of the bet from a player who is likely to call a single bet, but likely to fold to a double bet. And calling here tends to disguise other hands you might raise with in the future in an attempt to promote a one-way hand into a scooper. People are more apt to call you if they see you betting a one-way low hand. You want to save this move for a time when your opponent will be afraid you have him both ways and will fold to your raise.

But in terms of this one hand, it's close on the river and probably trivial whether you call or raise. Not much gained or lost either way on this one hand.

[ QUOTE ]
Do you think my 7’s are good greater than 1 out of 4.5 times?

[/ QUOTE ]No. I don't think they're good one out of twenty.
[ QUOTE ]
Happy Thanksgiving!!

[/ QUOTE ]You too!

Buzz

brian64 · #3 11-22-2007, 11:45 AM

On the river, putting in 2bb costs you 1bb if you get quartered. The BB is also putting in 2bb, so you get a quarter of 4bb=1bb. If you smooth call the SB might call, but who knows, he could have some sort of busted draw and would fold anyway. It's hard to say what BB has, but it seems to me it's worth a shot to raise and knock out a better high. Even if CO calls and you get quartered in a 3-way pot, that's not a disaster. I don't think BB will 3/4 you by himself so often that it's a mistake to raise (it depends if he is LAG or a nut-peddler). As Buzz says, after everyone sees how you played this hand, you are likely to get called down next time in the same circumstances, so you will want a legit high next time.

mcpst17 · #4 11-22-2007, 05:43 PM

Buzz,

Thanks for the comments. I really appreciate the time and effort you put in here and always look forward to your valuable advice.

[ QUOTE ]
Hi mcpst17 - Fold on the first betting round.

[/ QUOTE ]

I thought even a weak hand like this may be profitable in a passive game given 3 opponents (all posted and did not enter voluntarily)and being on the button.

Do you fold because there is not much chance to scoop against 3 people?

Would you be more inclined to play this hand hu with position or just throw it away in all situations?

mcpst17 · #5 11-22-2007, 05:50 PM

[ QUOTE ]
On the river, putting in 2bb costs you 1bb if you get quartered.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes I agree, thx for the correction.

Buzz · #6 11-22-2007, 07:35 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Do you fold because there is not much chance to scoop against 3 people?

[/ QUOTE ]Not exactly, but maybe indirectly. I fold because it's a poor starting hand. It's poor for low, it's horrid for high, and it's poor for scooping.

[ QUOTE ]
Would you be more inclined to play this hand hu with position or just throw it away in all situations?

[/ QUOTE ]Heads-up in a two person game, I probably play it. Heads up in a nine person game after seven have folded, it's trash.

Buzz