Hand vs. Rizen $109 rebuy

iSTRONG · #1 03-06-2006, 01:09 PM

Rizen knows am a 2+2er. I know he is a thinking player and I've been playing solid poker so I assume he thinks am a semi-thinking player as well.

Poker Stars
No Limit Holdem Tournament
Blinds: t600/t1200
(Ante: t75)
8 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: t31332
UTG+1: t25787
Hero: t56577
MP2: t61644
CO: t29165
Button: t26140
SB: t27972
BB: t19430

Pre-flop: (8 players) Hero is MP1 with 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
2 folds, Hero raises to t3600, 4 folds, BB calls t2400.

Flop: Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (t8400, 2 players)
BB checks, Hero checks.

Turn: 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (t8400, 2 players)
BB bets t5200, Hero calls t5200.

River: A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (t18800, 2 players)
BB is all-in t10555, Hero calls t10555.

Results:
Final pot: t39910

Standard?

ghostwriter · #2 03-06-2006, 01:12 PM

Am I missing something, aren't you playing the board here?
There's no way you can call.

iSTRONG · #3 03-06-2006, 01:14 PM

yes, I'm playing the board.

seke2 · #4 03-06-2006, 01:19 PM

Interesting...lots of "he knows that I know that he knows than I know" stuff going on...

Rizen probably believes you don't have a diamond, since you would have likely cbet the flop with any diamond and the river A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (and flopped Q [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]) makes it unlikely you were slow playing a flopped flush. On the turn, if he has a diamond, I can see him betting because he wants to build the pot a little and see if you are trying to slowplay something. I can see him betting with or without a diamond, but I don't assume that he doesn't have one. On the river, his push makes sense whether or not he has a diamond. However, you are now risking an additional 10k to win ~20k, since you can't win the last 10k he bet. I guess it's probably a vaguely reasonable pot odds call, the chances of him having a diamond are worse than 3:1 based on raw math and perhaps not much better even when you factor in the action during the hand, which a thinking player would do with or without a diamond.

MeanGreenTT · #5 03-06-2006, 01:31 PM

[ QUOTE ]
However, you are now risking an additional 10k to win ~20k, since you can't win the last 10k he bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually since a split is the best we can hope for (playing the board), it's a 10k call to split the 19k currently in the middle, unless I'm missing something...

uclabruinz · #6 03-06-2006, 01:33 PM

Shove the turn?

seke2 · #7 03-06-2006, 01:36 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
However, you are now risking an additional 10k to win ~20k, since you can't win the last 10k he bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually since a split is the best we can hope for (playing the board), it's a 10k call to split the 19k currently in the middle, unless I'm missing something...

[/ QUOTE ]

Right, right, brain fart.

10k to win 10k then. That changes my math and changes my decision to make the call, I'd fold the river.

If you were going to call the river on a 5th diamond anyway, I'd have repushed the turn. Did the fact that it was the A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] as opposed to a low [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] influence that decision to call the river bet?

iSTRONG · #8 03-06-2006, 01:37 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Shove the turn?

[/ QUOTE ]

This is absolutely the correct answer... let's suppose you misclick and call on the turn. What's your river play?

btw, seke is spot on as to my thinking... except I don't think Rizen pushes with any diamond on the river.

seke2 · #9 03-06-2006, 01:43 PM

[ QUOTE ]
btw, seke is spot on as to my thinking... except I don't think Rizen pushes with any diamond on the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, he might push if he knows you wouldn't think he'd do that, and that's why it gets a lot harder in these spots where the opponents know each other.

I guess you're basically thinking Rizen either has a high diamond or no diamond at all, since he wouldn't push with something like a 7 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] or 5 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]? I think a 9 (or T/J/K) [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] pushes here, so I can only see 2 flush hands that beat the board and probably check/call any instead of push, and since this is Rizen, I imagine he'd have to have exactly 55 or 77 to play the hand that way.

iSTRONG · #10 03-06-2006, 01:46 PM

[ QUOTE ]
since this is Rizen, I imagine he'd have to have exactly 55 or 77 to play the hand that way.

[/ QUOTE ]

You underestimate how crazy this guy plays. Btw Rizen does not know me personally. I just congratulated him on his Big Deal win when I saw him at my table therefore letting him know I'm a 2+2er.