I'm back, and WORSE THAN EVER! 4-bet preflop Questions

SkeetyMcdoogle · #1 11-02-2007, 12:47 AM

Fellahs,

I would love some insight on 4-betting preflop.

What is your 4-bet range. Do you choose never to 4-bet, 4-bet bluff, or just use a ridiculously small and obvious 4-bet range (AA,AK,KK,QQ?)

thac · #2 11-02-2007, 12:50 AM

It depends.

doppelganger · #3 11-02-2007, 12:50 AM

Against normal opponents I pretty much only 4bet KK and AA, and that's usually a shove.

SkeetyMcdoogle · #4 11-02-2007, 12:51 AM

Help me out Thac, NL50 is what im playin.

Dopple, when you raise to 4bb and they bump it to say 12, you just shove normally?

-pretend this is in a vacuum by the way, 1st hand at the table

bknollenberg · #5 11-02-2007, 12:58 AM

pretending it's the first hand at the table doesn't really help because if it's my first hand at the table my range for 4-betting is going to different than just about any situation once i'm adjusted to the table. first hand at the table i'll 4-bet AA, KK, AK, and probably QQ. but there are rarely any situations where i'm acquainted with a table where i'll 4-bet that exact range of hands. this is so opponent and table dependent that it's almost a worthless question unless you give context.

if you describe some hypothetical players, i'm sure it'd make things more informative for you and for the rest of us.

thac · #6 11-02-2007, 01:01 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Against normal opponents I pretty much only 4bet KK and AA, and that's usually a shove.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agree%2

derosnec · #7 11-02-2007, 01:04 AM

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (5 handed) Poker Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

BB ($83.70)
Hero ($72.10)
MP ($56.20)
Button ($63.30)
SB ($59.05)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
Hero raises to $2, 1 fold, Button raises to $7.25, 2 folds, Hero raises to $72.1, Button calls $56.05 (All-In).

Flop: ($127.35) A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players, 1 all-in)

Turn: ($127.35) Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players, 1 all-in)

River: ($127.35) 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players, 1 all-in)

Final Pot: $127.36

Hero has 7s 6s (two pair, sevens and sixes).
Button has Kh Kd (one pair, kings).
Outcome: Hero wins $136.14.

whyherro · #8 11-02-2007, 01:05 AM

I generally only 4-bet in certain situations as its so easy to stack people if you just call a 3-bet pf with AA,KK.

derosnec · #9 11-02-2007, 01:06 AM

but seriously

reviewing 3bet stats with Holdem Manager(including resteals from blinds), most people have a somewhat small 3bet range (about 5%). so figure out equity against that range (unless nits).

this is your friend: http://rvgsoftware.com/

bknollenberg · #10 11-02-2007, 01:06 AM

[ QUOTE ]
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (5 handed) Poker Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

BB ($83.70)
Hero ($72.10)
MP ($56.20)
Button ($63.30)
SB ($59.05)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
Hero raises to $2, 1 fold, Button raises to $7.25, 2 folds, Hero raises to $72.1, Button calls $56.05 (All-In).

Flop: ($127.35) A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players, 1 all-in)

Turn: ($127.35) Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players, 1 all-in)

River: ($127.35) 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players, 1 all-in)

Final Pot: $127.36

Hero has 7s 6s (two pair, sevens and sixes).
Button has Kh Kd (one pair, kings).
Outcome: Hero wins $136.14.

[/ QUOTE ]
yea, i'll pull stuff like that but usually i have enough of a read that i won't end up in spots like derosnec. noob, imo..

jokes!

but seriously, if i have the table controlled and can read bets like a picture book, i'll do this, and have even done it even lighter (like Q3o type shiz).