NL 100: tryin to maximize monster hand versus regular OOP (2 hands)

billzfan86 · #1 08-12-2007, 03:34 AM

First let me say that I believe my OOP play is by far the weakest part of my game and I dont really know how to fix that, so anyways any help would be greatly apprecaited

Hand 1
i am playin my normal 16/11/3.75 game and villian is regular on stars and i assume he knows my stats and my basic game, so his flop play could be air because of my high C-bet% but generally hes a tag (14/8/2.75ish) and doesnt get out of line too much, anyways i think of him as a smart player and i think my river line is too fishy

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (5 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

UTG ($21.50)
MP ($100)
Button ($98.50)
Hero ($96)
BB ($187.50)

Preflop: Hero is SB with A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
3 folds, Hero raises to $4, BB calls $3.

Flop: ($8) A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets $6, BB raises to $18, Hero calls $12.

Turn: ($44) 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, BB bets $32, Hero calls $32.

River: ($108) T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets $42 (All-In),

Hand 2

main villian is unknown, same line on flop and turn again but i really considered 4 betting here

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

SB ($54.50)
BB ($141)
UTG ($49.90)
UTG+1 ($29.70)
Hero ($203.60)
MP2 ($116.85)
MP3 ($13)
CO ($100)
Button ($124)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. CO posts a blind of $1.
2 folds, Hero raises to $4, 2 folds, CO (poster) calls $3, 2 folds, BB calls $3.

Flop: ($12.50) K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $9, CO raises to $20, BB folds, Hero calls $11.

Turn: ($52.50) 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, CO checks.

River: ($52.50) 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets $25, Hero calls $25.

Final Pot: $102.50

anyways i feel horrible about both these hands because i believe i failed to maximize on both hands also I tend to 3 or 4 bet draws on flops against some players but it has a very high fold % so i feel like Im wasting a big hand 4 betting in these 2 spots, anyways any help with better lines for these types of hands or with playing out of position in general would be great

22pajo · #2 08-12-2007, 04:17 AM

I'd re raise the flop on both hands.

As for playing OOP i dont see how these 2 hands are problems. You have top set in both (you have the nuts by the turn in hand 1).
Just bet until you can bet no more.

You'll find lots of spots with more marginal hands OOP, and consequently more difficult decisions, than these 2.

ToomuchCoffee · #3 08-12-2007, 04:52 AM

Welcome to the club : "I hate my OOP-play"
I have the same problem, so my advice may not be to usefull. The 2. hand I just shove the flop after his raise. Once in a while you meet another set, but it stops villian from reraising you with fd. In the 1. hand, I would make a small turnbet, that looks like a probbet and let´s him easy call his fd, maybe 10$. The only hand that would go allin with you here is 66/55, so I would try to get the most money out of a draw.

piebear · #4 08-12-2007, 05:58 AM

[ QUOTE ]
The 2. hand I just shove the flop after his raise. Once in a while you meet another set, but it stops villian from reraising you with fd.

[/ QUOTE ]

I wouldn't mind him reraising me when I am sitting there with the nuts.

both hands I would raise the flop though; say the first to $55, the second to $60

DiamondDog · #5 08-12-2007, 06:02 AM

I'm a weak-tight pussy wimp noob, but even I'm feeling this strange urge to re-raise both of those flops.

oakrdrzfan · #6 08-12-2007, 06:08 AM

I don't see a problem with hand 1. You got it all in by the river. If he was bluffing, you probably maxed out what you get out of him. If he isnt, you win the all in.

Hand 2: I re-raise the flop. Too many draws out there to muck around. JJ or 88 are definitely in the range and will pay you off. As played, I bet the river strong after he ck'd the flush card on the turn with intention of calling a shove.

mack848 · #7 08-12-2007, 07:51 AM

Hand 1.

I would say his range to raise the flop is a FD, a big Ace, AXs, a set, a str8 draw or air. Here are my thoughts on raising each of these.

Flush or Str8 draw - Raising will usually fold out a hand you want to call.
A big Ace - Raising might allow him to find a fold with AJ, but with your image, he might stack off with AQ/AK here.
AXs - A tight reg will usually fold AXs to a re-rise here.
A set - Raising is clearly the better play
Air - Raising stops him from possibly bluffing the turn/river.

I think the call is the better play and like the way this hand was played throughout.

Hand 2.

I like a flop re-raise here. He is very likely on a draw, but you don't know which draw. If a diamond, a 9, a Ten, A Queen or an Ace turns - you won't know what to do. If he has a combo draw, he's calling or pushing anyway.

mce86 · #8 08-12-2007, 08:46 AM

I didnt think they looked bad.
On hand 1, I would of done the same thing, or turn min raise and push river. You all in looks desperate as opposed to a monster.
Hand 2, check on turn is good, but I would have lead the river. I dont want him checking behind again. As it was on his river bet, Im probably going to raise him up.

hielo_uno · #9 08-12-2007, 08:51 AM

i think you should RRAI on the turn in the fist hand. On the second hand, 3-bet the flop , the diamond slow-down the action, but you cant put him on that, so bet the turn as well. if he doesnt have a hand , you are not getting values anyways. If he has a hand, stack that biaaaaatch.

Setzy · #10 08-12-2007, 12:05 PM

Hand 1 I like your line versus regulars because it looks like you missed with 78d or something, good for a little deception. Normally you may want to just try to stick it in on the turn, as opponent probably has a big hand like 56, maybe A6 or A5. It is 5-handed though, and blind versus blind, so he's going to give you less credit for a bigger hand.

Hand 2 I'd just stick it in on the flop after BB folds because CO has shown incredible strength raising into you AND the BB (though it's basically a minraise). He's not folding 9Td, KJ or 88 here, get your money in while they're willing.