Basic overcards hand

[OrigamiSensei]

I apologize for the severely mundane hand but I gotta tell ya, I am really struggling here at .25/.50 and I'm trying to plug the leaks. I'm getting a real wakeup call that I flat out suck and I need to go back to basics.

Ultimate Bet 0.25/0.50 Hold'em (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: OrigamiSensei is SB with Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, MP2 calls, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, OrigamiSensei completes, BB checks.

MP2 is a 38/9 type player pre-flop but somewhat passive postflop. He is, however, capable of making a move at an uncontested pot. BB is a 7/4 rock (TP-P). Hindsight says I should have iso-raised here but that's not what I'm worried about. Running bad will cause you not to take advantage of opportunities like this. However, there should be no huge objections to my just completing per standard SSHE tight chart play.

Flop: (3 SB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
OrigamiSensei checks, BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 bets</font>, OrigamiSensei ???

First reaction is relief that I didn't raise pre-flop because I missed the flop as usual. But seriously, given that MP2 has calling station tendencies should I check this flop or bet it? Oddly enough a bet may merit more respect here because I didn't raise pre-flop, therefore it's more likely to appear that I hit with crappy cards from the SB. I have the overcards, a back door flush draw to the third nuts and a back door straight draw to the nuts. The overcards are probably worth a bit more than usual, say four outs or slightly better, the back door flush draw is worth less than usual, call it one out and the back door straignt draw might be worth an out. Call it 6 for a round number. Nonetheless I'm only getting 4:1 on my money with BB yet to act. The problem is that I may actually have the best hand here given the loose pre-flop standards of MP2.

I'm starting to think this is a serious leak but I also hate to give up so easily when I could have the best hand. My concern is that I'm making a lot of bad decisions in these scenarios and that it's costing me a lot of money. What to do? Meanwhile I still have about 500 hands to review and a re-read of the Loyalguard overcard compilation is in order.

Sorry for the whining, but the OrigamiSensei is dying the death of a thousand (paper) cuts right now.

[Hielko]

Start with raising preflop.

As played; easy fold. You have two overcards (not even A-high for showdown value) on a connected 2-flush board in a small pot.

[Scary_Tiger]

[ QUOTE ]
However, there should be no huge objections to my just completing per standard SSHE tight chart play.

[/ QUOTE ]

zomg raise pf

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I'm starting to think this is a serious leak but I also hate to give up so easily when I could have the best hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

Then raise preflop. As is, OOP in a tiny pot you shouldn't be screwing around here. Fold. A flop bet has merit versus lots of opponents, but you need to know he's capable of folding in a spot like this. (Or that he calls down with like 5 high.) So actually flop something in a different hand and bet and remember if he folds.

[OrigamiSensei]

Hielko, makes sense. Hypothetical follow-up: assume I raise pre-flop as I should have and BB folds, what's my line on the flop? Assume MP2 tends to call more than fold.

[Hielko]

[ QUOTE ]
Hielko, makes sense. Hypothetical follow-up: assume I raise pre-flop as I should have and BB folds, what's my line on the flop? Assume MP2 tends to call more than fold.

[/ QUOTE ]
Bet flop for value/protection and semi-bluff.

[DeliciousBass]

Fold.

If you like your reads get yourself heads-up with MP2 pre-flop. We should have a decent expectation that BB will release whatever he was dealt to our raise and we isolate a player who is too wide open.

At the point in the hand which we find ourselves now is terrible. MP2 very well could have us beat at this point and our rockish friend is yet to act. If you call here and BB calls or raises this flop we are all the way carebeared.

[nomadtla]

My advice when I really consider the hand:
The pot is allready shorthanded, and you are out of position. So call me weak-tight but I really don't mind the limp with offsuit broadways.
If it was ATo+ it's a deffinate raise but with king high I deffinately don't think a limp is godawful.

On the flop:
A. it's coordinated enough for me to not like it very much
B. since the pot was not raised they may give you credit for top pair if you lead out. But....
C. since the pot was not raised it's also more likely that one of them hit a pair.
D. You have king high
E. Your backdoor straight draw is to the nuts but you need 2 exact cards to fill it (J &amp; T), and a flush draw might be made by one of those I'd only give it .5 outs
F. Your backdoor flush draw is to a one card, 3rd nut frush, I like calling it one out.
G. You do have two overcards. They may both be live. But if one of your opponents has Q9, and the other a flush draw you are only drawing to two outs (just an example). Plus hitting the turn for top pair may just cost you money since there are a fair number of redraws that can come on the river and sink your top pair. I would go with the regular 3 outs.

So by the way I see it you have 4.5, maybe 5 outs. I don't see leading out as a bet for value, or being able to take down the pot. The pot is 4:1 when it's your decision we're not getting near the odds we need and our implied odds aren't great either. I think check/fold is in order.

My probable actions when I'm playing:
raise preflop
bet/call flop
check/fold turn (depending on the turn card of course)

[Bilgefisher]

*grunch*

I agree with your pf assesment that you should have raised to isolate a weak limper.

That aside, I would actually fold the flop.
Reason: The pot is wicked small. 4sb. You have one person yet to act. Your over cards only come in 24% of the time. You also have a backdoor straight draw, but once again in this small pot. I fold. I think this is a very narrow margin +ev on this hand if you play it correctly. For me, its leans toward fold if my quality of play can't cover that little margin of victory.

[car ramrod]

pretty easy pfr

[TarHeel100]

Preflop: I'm raising this. Considering the limper's VPIP is 38%, you probably have some nice equity even in a 3 way pot, and best case obviously the BB folds and now you are heads up vs. a gimp. With BB's VPIP, you will probably get him to fold.

Flop: You've got 2 opponents rated as passive after the flop, so not much point in bluffing into them. Pot is very small the way you played it, so just let it go and fold.