Pocket AA Turn Play

OrigamiSensei · #1 02-11-2006, 02:01 PM

During last nights session I had a lot of trouble with my post-flop play of pocket pairs. I think over the next day or so I want to throw three to five hands out for analysis so I can better understand what I'm doing wrong.

Ultimate Bet 0.01/0.02 Hold'em (7 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Anti-hero is UTG with A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. SB :Villain1 posts a blind of $0.01.
Anti-hero raises, 1 fold, MP2 :Villain2 calls, CO calls, 1 fold, SB :Villain1 (poster) calls, BB calls.

Completely standard pre-flop play.

Flop: (10 SB) T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (5 players)
Villain1 bets, BB folds, Anti-hero raises, Villain2 calls, CO calls, Villain1 calls.

Again, standard flop behavior.

Turn: (9 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players)
Villain1 bets, Anti-hero ???

Here is where I wanted some discussion, and I'd like to see something more thought out than "just raise" blindly. I'd like to understand the merits of raising vs. calling. There is a very real possibility I am behind to Villain1 but Villain2 is a passive player with "fishy" PT stats and his hand is unknown. He has cold-called pre-flop and on the flop.

The situation with Villain2 might be interesting. Assuming Villain 2 is sitting there with one pair he has five outs to beat me, thus by merely calling he gets 11:1 for his 8.2:1 draw vs. my hand. However If I raise he only gets 6:1 and it's clearly a mistake for him to call with just a pair. No matter what Villain1 has the odds to call a raise even with just a pair (at least relative to me if I have the best hand)

This flip side is, of course, the possibility that I raise and then one of the villains three-bets me but then I have to re-evalute.

So:

1) Raise or call in this immediate position?
2) Possible lines of play for the rest of the hand?

MrWookie · #2 02-11-2006, 02:10 PM

Raises again. You have an opportunity to protect against gutshots, and this is Jx 75%+ of the time.

buriedbeds · #3 02-11-2006, 02:28 PM

[ QUOTE ]
During last nights session I had a lot of trouble with my post-flop play of pocket pairs. I think over the next day or so I want to throw three to five hands out for analysis so I can better understand what I'm doing wrong.

Ultimate Bet 0.01/0.02 Hold'em (7 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Anti-hero is UTG with A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. SB :Villain1 posts a blind of $0.01.
Anti-hero raises, 1 fold, MP2 :Villain2 calls, CO calls, 1 fold, SB :Villain1 (poster) calls, BB calls.

Completely standard pre-flop play.

Flop: (10 SB) T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (5 players)
Villain1 bets, BB folds, Anti-hero raises, Villain2 calls, CO calls, Villain1 calls.

Again, standard flop behavior.

Turn: (9 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players)
Villain1 bets, Anti-hero ???

Here is where I wanted some discussion, and I'd like to see something more thought out than "just raise" blindly. I'd like to understand the merits of raising vs. calling. There is a very real possibility I am behind to Villain1 but Villain2 is a passive player with "fishy" PT stats and his hand is unknown. He has cold-called pre-flop and on the flop.

The situation with Villain2 might be interesting. Assuming Villain 2 is sitting there with one pair he has five outs to beat me, thus by merely calling he gets 11:1 for his 8.2:1 draw vs. my hand. However If I raise he only gets 6:1 and it's clearly a mistake for him to call with just a pair. No matter what Villain1 has the odds to call a raise even with just a pair (at least relative to me if I have the best hand)

This flip side is, of course, the possibility that I raise and then one of the villains three-bets me but then I have to re-evalute.

So:

1) Raise or call in this immediate position?
2) Possible lines of play for the rest of the hand?

[/ QUOTE ]

I would raise again believing that I'm best. If 3-bet, I crying-call and check/call the river. To me, AT
would play this hand the same way.

-bb.

TredWel · #4 02-11-2006, 03:03 PM

If this were heads up, we could argue the merits of raising v. calling, even though I still think raising would be correct in that situation.

However, we're not heads up, and we need to protect our hand regardless of whether we're currently ahead. This is a clear raise.

Jaran · #5 02-11-2006, 03:20 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Raises again. You have an opportunity to protect against gutshots, and this is Jx 75%+ of the time.

[/ QUOTE ]

Gregatron · #6 02-11-2006, 03:26 PM

I think you should 3 bet this. Many times cold callers will have a lower PP here and be drawing slim (calling all the way), and your flop bettor has something like top pair, or two pair which you have 8 outs to beat.

Chris Daddy Cool · #7 02-11-2006, 03:40 PM

hey origami,

you should raise this turn here. villian in this hand is giving you the oppurtunity to protect what he hopes is the best hand with his likely jack, but more importantly protect YOUR hand which is likely to still be best.

the pot is big enough where you have to try to protect it as best as possible even if it means you might get 3-bet. it's a risk you have to take.

OrigamiSensei · #8 02-12-2006, 12:10 AM

One thing that should be taken into consideration is that even if I'm behind to two pair I actually have a pretty decent redraw. I'm hurtin' to a set but I have two aces or I can pair the board as long as it's not an opponent's card making for another six outs even though I'm not sure exactly which ones they are. This of course works better against one opponent rather than two - another reason to face Villain2 with the decision to call two cold with bad odds rather than one with good odds and get it to heads up if possible.

I was pretty sure that I had screwed up by not raising last night bur wanted confirmation.

I'll be posting more problem hands with pocket pairs as I really had a tough time with them last night. Thanks for the responses.

johnnytt · #9 02-12-2006, 03:50 AM

Grunch

I raise turn assume I am probably up against top pair or maybe a smaller pocket pair

if reraised I call down

TomBrooks · #10 02-12-2006, 12:28 PM

Raise