Johnny Damon is vastly overrated

[Hack]

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Damon deserves a little bonus for his base stealing/speed and excellent low strike out rate

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Please explain why Damon deserves a bonus for his low strikeout rate. What does it matter how often a player strikes out? An out is an out.

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Because you can make an out and advance runners. Not every out is equal.

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A ground out can also turn into a double play ball, doing more damage than a strikeout. Your point?

[MinRaise]

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Damon deserves a little bonus for his base stealing/speed and excellent low strike out rate

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Please explain why Damon deserves a bonus for his low strikeout rate. What does it matter how often a player strikes out? An out is an out.

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Because you can make an out and advance runners. Not every out is equal.

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Strikeouts are basicaly equal to other outs when you factor in hitting into double plays along with these factors you just mentioned. Though maybe since Damon is fast, his groundouts could be worth slightly more than someone with average speed.

[Hack]

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Damon deserves a little bonus for his base stealing/speed and excellent low strike out rate

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Please explain why Damon deserves a bonus for his low strikeout rate. What does it matter how often a player strikes out? An out is an out.

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Because you can make an out and advance runners. Not every out is equal.

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Strikeouts are basicaly equal to other outs when you factor in hitting into double plays along with these factors you just mentioned. Though maybe since Damon is fast, his groundouts could be worth slightly more than someone with average speed.

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You basically echoed me but don't count on Dynasty responding to these comments. When he starts to lose an argument he just stops responding and forgets he ever posted in it.

[Flip_Dog]

Well if he had played his whole career in KC, it would be Johnny who?

[Dynasty]

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Damon deserves a little bonus for his base stealing/speed and excellent low strike out rate

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Please explain why Damon deserves a bonus for his low strikeout rate. What does it matter how often a player strikes out? An out is an out.

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Because you can make an out and advance runners. Not every out is equal.

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Strikeouts are basicaly equal to other outs when you factor in hitting into double plays along with these factors you just mentioned.

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You can't be serious about a low strike-out rate not having value.

As far as stats go, Damon averaged 7 GIDPs per year form '99 to '05.

Among players with at least 400 plate appearances, Damon ranked

2005: 108th-114th (tie) out of 117 players.
2004: 72-78 (tie) out of 104 players
2003: 92-96 (tie) out of 104 players
2002: 99-100 (tie) out of 103 players
2001: 84-91 (tie) out of 105 players
2000: 90-93 (tie) out of 103 players
1999: #s not on ESPN.com. It was Damon's worst year.

Damon grounded into fewer double players than more than 90% of other AL players.

[junglewarfare]

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Damon grounded into fewer double players than more than 90% of other AL players.

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good for him. but that still doesnt change the fact that his steals and low K rate are pretty much insignificant.

[Dynasty]

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Damon grounded into fewer double players than more than 90% of other AL players.

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good for him. but that still doesnt change the fact that his steals and low K rate are pretty much insignificant.

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Why would you consider advancing runners (either yourself or others) to be pretty much insignificant?

[ColdCaller]

Strikeouts are the same as every other out. Dynasty, believing that there are such things as repeatable "productive outs" is retarded.

That said, contact hitters (like Damon) need to avoid strikeouts to be successful, which he has done - and that is reflected in his batting average and OBP. Power hitters (like Adam Dunn) can strike out all the [censored] they want and still be fine (so long as they are taking walks) - and that is reflected in his slugging and on-base percentage.

If you don't understand why, here's a quick tutorial:

Say you are pitching against Johnny Damon. Do you mind throwing him a bunch of strikes? No, not really - he is going to make contact and probably not hit it out of the park. But you will throw him a lot of strikes in hopes to strike him out because the damage he can do with the stick is minimal.

Say you are pitching to Adam Dunn. Are you going to throw him a ton of strikes? No, of course you aren't. Adam Dunn hit a bomb into the next state, so obviously you are going to nibble at the corners and do your best not to leave your breaking ball hanging in the middle of the plate. As such, you might get him to strike out on a curveball, or you might walk him. However, you are sure as hell not throwing him easy strikes.

Because of the nature of these two confrontations, Damon is obviously going to have to not strike out more often to be successful as compared to Dunn. Just because Damon has low strikeout rates doesn't make him better than the average contact hitter - it's in fact expected of him.

[Paluka]

Damon GIDPs are lower partially because he has always hit leadoff. He automaticaly gets one at bat a game with nobody on base, and the worst hitters on his team usually bat just ahead of him in the lineup. On the other hand, there were a couple Red Sox teams where the #9 hitter had a .380 OBP.

[prohornblower]

Welcome to ca. 2003.