Situational Floped Nuts But Should Fold Question

[Murakawa]

I don't have the HH but I'll give an example. I'm on the big blind, and early and middle player limp, I have JT75o and I check. Flop comes AKQ with two hearts. I bet the pot, EP raises, MP pushes all in. This means that I'm up against a set and a flush draw and probably another nut straight and I should fold, right?

[franknagaijr]

How much do you and EP have left, proportional to MP? Seems like you're getting 3 to one odds on the main pot, and you're potentially a favorite on the side pot, since the low is backdoored about 10% of the time.

[bbartlog]

The backdoor low is not that good in the example hand though. I think you have to figure that one of the other players could have ALTJ, which would make your backdoor low almost worthless.
Anyway, I'm not sure I've ever managed to actually fold the dry (high) nuts, but if there would be any place to do it this would be it.

[Assani Fisher]

easy easy fold imo.

[Murakawa]

MP had half the stack that me and EP had, we were about even. Anyway, I called, EP called. K came on the turn, it turns out both me and MP had 1/4th the pot left in our stacks so we pushed anyway. MP had KK8To (UCHHHG) and won the main pot with four kings, and I split the side pot.... the flush didn't come in but EP didn't have it. EP had limped UTG with JTA9 single suited which he played horribly I Think but it wasn't as randomly bad as KK8To. Overall of course I lost money, it was essentially being quartered. It wasn't my fault they limped and hit, but I still should have folded the flop, I was at best going to get a split and I should have known that.

[Reko Savinen]

Agreed with Assani. The reason why more people aren't consistent winners in O8b is because they refuse to let go of the then-nuts. I'm almost certainly folding this (granted, I'm a very tight player) because there is no opportunity for you to make any more money in this hand.

Either they're going to improve and stack you, or they're not going to improve and thus not call any more bets. If ANY scare card comes on the turn, you're beat probably 99% of the time here.

[Assani Fisher]

This reminds me of another concept. A hand that happened to me a few weeks ago(details are from memory so might not be exact):

I flop nut broadway straight. EP bets pot. I call. Turn is rag, board is still rainbow. He bets pot. I call. River pairs the board. He checks. I bet big, he calls and we split.

Afterwards he berates me for "only betting once I could've been beaten, but I think it was a pretty advanced play and that the only mistake in the hand was his donk river call.

Now you have to know your opponent well enough to know that he wouldn't be betting the pot on a set here with an obvious straight out there, but I like this play a lot.

In general, I think far too many players overvalue the nuts on the flop in PLO8 and NLO8. Especially when you have position in the hand, theres no need to get it all in on the flop all the time unless you have good reason to believe that you are the only one with the current nuts.

[morningstar]

If i remember correctly this play was explained in Super System IIs plo section...

...oh and there are few situations in LO8 that warrant folding the high nuts, but they usually require a possible made low or 2 low cards and since the downside on losing the pot in PLO/PLO8 is so much bigger there are way more those situations in those forms of omaha (though only made straights as far as i know, but i don't play either that much to be sure)

[StrikeR300]

[ QUOTE ]
The reason why more people aren't consistent winners in O8b is because they refuse to let go of the then-nuts.

[/ QUOTE ]

Huh? This is very silly, people get themselves in a lot more trouble than with pushing the flopped nuts (further more flopped nuts here was AAJTss). Other than that this hand is simply a bad beat, hero got 75% of MP's stack in as a 65/35 favorite.