STTF SNG->cash thread

[Paul B.]

[ QUOTE ]
costanza and I like to argue over hands. We argued over the turn action here. We both have valid reasons for our plays, what do you guys think?

He never gives me reads, I don't think he pays attention when he plays [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Full Tilt Poker - No Limit Hold'em Cash Game - $3/$6 Blinds - 6 Players - (LegoPoker Hand History Converter)

SB: $517.35
BB: $1,015.00
UTG: $742.80
Hero (MP): $591.00
CO: $437.80
BTN: $212.20

Preflop: Hero is dealt 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (6 Players)
UTG folds, <font color="red">Hero raises to $21.00</font>, 3 folds, BB calls $15.00

Flop: ($45) 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 Players)
BB checks, Hero checks

Turn: ($45) A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 Players)
<font color="red">BB bets $45.00</font>, Hero ????

[/ QUOTE ]

Bet flop, but as played, call turn.

[microbet]

I think a weak ace is betting the river more than he's calling a raise on the turn.

If he's very loose and would have called a raise on the turn, and he bets the river, he'll call a river raise with any hand that would have called a turn raise, but he's not going to call a turn raise and still lead the river.

He'll take a small shot or something with air on the river a reasonable amount of the time.

A pair weaker than an ace will call a river bet a lot more than a turn raise.

I don't think you miss any value here by calling behind even if he has a hand as strong a A9.

If the lines were exactly equivalent in terms of value, then I'd go with raising turn because he still could have a draw, but I think his chances of bluffing river + chances of leading with a weak hand + chances of leading and then calling a raise on the river with a medium hand absolutely prove that I like to repeat myself.

[Pasterbator]

[ QUOTE ]
costanza and I like to argue over hands. We argued over the turn action here. We both have valid reasons for our plays, what do you guys think?

He never gives me reads, I don't think he pays attention when he plays [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Full Tilt Poker - No Limit Hold'em Cash Game - $3/$6 Blinds - 6 Players - (LegoPoker Hand History Converter)

SB: $517.35
BB: $1,015.00
UTG: $742.80
Hero (MP): $591.00
CO: $437.80
BTN: $212.20

Preflop: Hero is dealt 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (6 Players)
UTG folds, <font color="red">Hero raises to $21.00</font>, 3 folds, BB calls $15.00

Flop: ($45) 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 Players)
BB checks, Hero checks

Turn: ($45) A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 Players)
<font color="red">BB bets $45.00</font>, Hero ????

[/ QUOTE ]

bet the flop 95% of the time...


if you dont, raise this turn for sure. Theres just no reason not to.

[dipstikdave]

[ QUOTE ]
costanza and I like to argue over hands. We argued over the turn action here. We both have valid reasons for our plays, what do you guys think?

He never gives me reads, I don't think he pays attention when he plays [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Full Tilt Poker - No Limit Hold'em Cash Game - $3/$6 Blinds - 6 Players - (LegoPoker Hand History Converter)

SB: $517.35
BB: $1,015.00
UTG: $742.80
Hero (MP): $591.00
CO: $437.80
BTN: $212.20

Preflop: Hero is dealt 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (6 Players)
UTG folds, <font color="red">Hero raises to $21.00</font>, 3 folds, BB calls $15.00

Flop: ($45) 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 Players)
BB checks, Hero checks

Turn: ($45) A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 Players)
<font color="red">BB bets $45.00</font>, Hero ????

[/ QUOTE ]

i'm a big fan of playing for stacks when i flop a set. i like to do that by betting the flop to build a big pot. as played, i'd raise the turn most of the time.

[microbet]

I bet the flop on that hand too. I just think having not bet the flop and with him willing to take the initiative on the turn I'd check.

On the flop there isn't really any reason to think he's going to take the initiative on the turn if you check anyway, so I bet and hope he's either checkraising on a draw or something or will just call down with something.

[futuredoc85]

btw raising that turn looks pretty bluffy since he knows you know he's betting pretty wide once you dont c-bet.

[The Yugoslavian]

devin,

obv fold

ldo

Oh wait, ok bet flop/raise turn/get $$ in any way you can baby!!

I def wouldn't ever call after checking that flop...ewwwww! Well, unless I had a read or something.

Yugoslav

[DevinLake]

people who reply saying bet the flop...this is why it is rare for me to post hands on 2p2. If you don't do what is expected on an early street, every ignores later streets with their boring uninteresing analysis of an uninteresting part of the hand.

Also, most difficult/interesting spots come from taking a non standard line earlier in the hand.

This is not directed at anyone or even the analysis in this hand, but a general 2p2 leak.

[DevinLake]

microbet, how would you play the turn if you had air?

[microbet]

If I have air air, like no gutshot or anything, I'm folding the vast majority of the time. There are some players who I recognize will almost always bet at weakness and I'll raise them here with air like 20% or so. Even with a gutshot, I'm folding more often than not.

It's a pretty rare play for me, but sometimes with air I will be raising turn and potting the river if he checks. I'm pretty careful to make the note "he can make a big call" on people if I see something and will obviously not start down this road vs. those people.

Like I said I generally bet flop, but once I start slowplaying a hand and someone takes the lead, I'll generally let them have it until the river. In order to take it back, I'd have to think either there were a ton of horrible cards for me. If he's going to stack off, he may be stacking off on the river anyway.

Actually, in practice, I do take the lead back a fair amount with strong hands, but I think it is often a mistake as they fold too much when I do it.

It is good to slowplay hands sometimes, especially against regulars. I have one regular opponent (I think) believing that I slowplay whenever I hit hard and it's currently giving me a lot of opportunities to bluff the turn and to get more value from strong hands by playing fast. These things go back and forth.