Shoving ranges with 4-5 BB stacks

[shaundeeb]

With the stuper weak antees I would say like 60%ish of hands you should be shove 75% utg+1 90% UTG

[curtains]

You have to push very loose, what are the antes btw?

[shaundeeb]

[ QUOTE ]
You have to push very loose, what are the antes btw?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think they are like 1/10th a sb in stuper at most levels so prob 50 here. The prob with this spot a mistake I see most players make it people put them on a tilty image and put them on ATC and iso sooo wide with broadway cards any pair Ax Kx etc and with soo many people behind you are always getting looked up. If you just fold this hand your image is much better imo and their calling ranges diminish a significant amount.

[SonofDjugashvili]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You have to push very loose, what are the antes btw?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think they are like 1/10th a sb in stuper at most levels so prob 50 here. The prob with this spot a mistake I see most players make it people put them on a tilty image and put them on ATC and iso sooo wide with broadway cards any pair Ax Kx etc and with soo many people behind you are always getting looked up. If you just fold this hand your image is much better imo and their calling ranges diminish a significant amount.

[/ QUOTE ]

Good point - I overlooked the post-beat tilt factor in my reply. Of course, I have often been fortunate enough to wake up with KK here. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] Still, with only 4 hands of life, I think the 1st in vig outweighs anything else IMHO. Though, given the tilt factor, I might be persuaded to lay down the absolute worst junk here. I am just scared that I might not get to be 1st in the 2 hands before the BB and I'd rather have FE with ATC than have to depend on purely on luck (cards or suckouts).

[curtains]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You have to push very loose, what are the antes btw?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think they are like 1/10th a sb in stuper at most levels so prob 50 here. The prob with this spot a mistake I see most players make it people put them on a tilty image and put them on ATC and iso sooo wide with broadway cards any pair Ax Kx etc and with soo many people behind you are always getting looked up. If you just fold this hand your image is much better imo and their calling ranges diminish a significant amount.

[/ QUOTE ]


You are pretty much forced to push all the hands you mentioned up above.

[shaundeeb]

yes we push those hands I know that but we fold a lot of trash hands I think you misread my post and I said that's the hands they are isoing us or even worse flat calling us with.

[curtains]

[ QUOTE ]
yes we push those hands I know that but we fold a lot of trash hands I think you misread my post and I said that's the hands they are isoing us or even worse flat calling us with.

[/ QUOTE ]


I don't believe Kx is calling our allin most of the time.

[shaundeeb]

I've seen K4s and such iso 4-5shoves of a tilty guy a lot in SB and BB.

[trimp]

I don't think it really matters. As long as you are first in, shove it. Don't worry too much about being in EP, that probably favors you.

If you are close to another payout level, the best EV play is probably to let your stack dry out.

[WarDekar]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
yes we push those hands I know that but we fold a lot of trash hands I think you misread my post and I said that's the hands they are isoing us or even worse flat calling us with.

[/ QUOTE ]


I don't believe Kx is calling our allin most of the time.

[/ QUOTE ]

What if Button has the Kx? I think Button's iso range is incredibly wide here, but the problem is the next hand the BB will have an incredibly wide range, and then the next hand he'll be the SB, etc.

I agree with shaun that you probably want to fold your weaker holdings here because it helps your image for pushing the next hand, plus UTG+1 or UTG raises get a lot of respect for some reason, your biggest problem with that is though as I said the BB (SB when you're UTG) has a massive stack and as such is going to have a massively wide calling range I would think.

Yuck I hate this spot, I'm definitely pushing a lot because I think you have FE against the BB, but not complete crap obviously. As someone else said, ATC >=8, definitely a suited broadway are the lower end of my range here I think.