3-betting all PPs

geer2 · #1 02-05-2007, 03:59 PM

I am somewhat new to playing limit poker. I usually play NLHE but have begun to play short-handed 3/6 LHE just recently. I am not too keen on the poker library but have heard several strategies on playing PPs from buddies. I have learned that if not in the blinds to 3-bet all PPs (upon discretion). Is this a viable strategy or is just calling a raise with the middle and lower PPs better?

JJH3984 · #2 02-05-2007, 04:30 PM

no. folding, raising and cold calling are all options depending on the situation. Post some hands. Yes, you can fold a PP for a raise. *Gasp*

Harv72b · #3 02-05-2007, 05:03 PM

As a general rule, I will 3bet a pocket pair if...

-It's TT or higher vs. a player with normal raising standards.
-The initial raise came from a player with extremely wide raising standards.
-The initial raise came from a position-aware or loose raiser in MP2 or later.
-I'm in the big blind & the raise came from a steal position and I think 3betting preflop will gain me folding equity on the flop.

I will coldcall if:
-It's a small/medium pocket pair and several other players are involved in the pot (either coldcalling the raise or limping before the raise).
-I'm in late position/small blind and at least one other player is involved in the pot (coldcalling or limping before the raise).
-I'm in the big blind and the raiser isn't very good.

I will fold if:

-None of the above conditions apply.

All of this of course assumes that I'm likely to isolate on the raiser if I 3bet, or at least get any players who haven't acted yet (i.e., didn't limp ahead of the raise) to fold. In online small stakes games that's fairly typical, but live is another story...you're often better off just coldcalling in a loose live game & hoping for a good flop.

Budzie · #4 02-05-2007, 06:41 PM

I really think 3 betting small pocket pairs is a bad idea. I want lots of people in the play if I hit a set, I dont want to chase them away. Best situation is when I have 6-7 players in before me preflop and I am in LP or the blinds, then I raise with even 22. Most of the time I am going to dump it after the flop. If I hit the set thats great, otherwise I will usually not see the turn. Very rare the pot offers odds to draw to two outs.

Zeldark · #5 02-06-2007, 04:44 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I really think 3 betting small pocket pairs is a bad idea. I want lots of people in the play if I hit a set, I dont want to chase them away. Best situation is when I have 6-7 players in before me preflop and I am in LP or the blinds, then I raise with even 22. Most of the time I am going to dump it after the flop. If I hit the set thats great, otherwise I will usually not see the turn. Very rare the pot offers odds to draw to two outs.

[/ QUOTE ]
Why are you investing money in something you're dumping most of the time after the flop? Pocket pairs are best against one opponent or many opponents. Few opponents is when they're weakest. You raise with them if you think there is a reasonable chance you will get it head up, or you call to encourage many people in. I'm not sure raising with 22 after you have a lot of callers is the best idea.

Salomonsson · #6 02-06-2007, 10:25 AM

3-betting with 22 is to me a really bad idea...

Someone please explain what the difference on 3 betting with pockets 2 or 3 betting with 97off is???

You are playing both for the Folding equity right? And that is in general a bad play to make pre-flop and SSHE when you havent invested anything.

Salomonsson · #7 02-06-2007, 10:41 PM

please anybody

Frond · #8 02-06-2007, 10:47 PM

I agree that raisng these small PPs is a bad idea. With the odds against making a set on the flop, why would you raise them if you are most of the time dumping them like was said earlier? Get in cheaply and then act accordingly. Same goes for Suited connectors

ChuckyB · #9 02-07-2007, 05:41 PM

[ QUOTE ]
3-betting with 22 is to me a really bad idea...

Someone please explain what the difference on 3 betting with pockets 2 or 3 betting with 97off is???

You are playing both for the Folding equity right? And that is in general a bad play to make pre-flop and SSHE when you havent invested anything.

[/ QUOTE ]

3-betting with small pocket pairs is unconventional. I can't think of a situation where I've done it, however I've had something similar done pretty effectively against me.

I had KK in the BB and 3-bet five limpers. UTG (who sucked) capped with 55. He flopped a TT5 boat and took a bunch of money off me.

Anyway...
3-betting with 22, 33 and the like is WAY better than 3-betting with 97o. 97 needs to flop 2 or 3 helpful cards to make it worthwhile (99x, 77x, 97x, T86, etc.). 97o belongs in the muck in almost every situation.

If you flop a set with 22, you can make a lot of money off unsuspecting players. (Plus you can make the "quack, quack" sound). Great potential return is why you play low pairs (and suited connectors) in multi-way pots.

ChuckyB · #10 02-07-2007, 05:45 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I really think 3 betting small pocket pairs is a bad idea. I want lots of people in the play if I hit a set, I dont want to chase them away. Best situation is when I have 6-7 players in before me preflop and I am in LP or the blinds, then I raise with even 22. Most of the time I am going to dump it after the flop. If I hit the set thats great, otherwise I will usually not see the turn. Very rare the pot offers odds to draw to two outs.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you're in a 7-way raised PF pot with a small pair and automatically dump it if you miss the flop, you're missing some value. In this big a hand, it would be easy to justify a call on the flop.

14 SBs in PF. Say a bet and 4 calls ahead of you on the flop, the expected size of the pot at that point (see: "Holdem on the Come") is 34 SB. That's much more than you need to peel for a 22.5:1 shot.