KK in 3-bet pot, A hits the turn. NL2k

[Tumez]

Hand 449849031312, Started at 2007-09-14 20:51:41
Table Beachjohans HE: $20-$20 No Limit HE (Real)

Seat 3: Villian ($4426,35 in chips) (on the button)
Seat 6: Scor_pion70 ($6205,95 in chips)
Seat 7: 0411 ($2260,50 in chips)
Seat 8: Hero ($2000 in chips)

*** Blind Bet Round *** :

Dealt to Hero: K [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]K [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

Scor_pion70 : Post Blind ($10)
0411 : Post Blind ($20)

*** Pre-Flop *** :
Hero : Bet ($70)
Villian : Raise ($225)
Scor_pion70 : Fold
0411 : Fold
Hero : Call ($155)

*** Flop *** : 3 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 9 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 9 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

Hero : Check
Villian : Bet ($355)
Hero : Call ($355)

*** Turn *** : [ 3 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 9 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 9 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] ] A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

Hero : Check
Villian : Bet ($755)
Hero : Raise ($1420) and is All-In

Villian is pretty agro guy. "hermaria" on PokerRoom if you know the guy. Running like 20/33/2.5 over decent sample. We have tangled couple of times in this session, and I have seen him double barrel etc. He pretty much always likes to bet big. I only called this preflop cuz we 4-handed, and he´s probably 3-betting light. Then the flop was so dry I ch/called, cuz villian could easily fire the second bullet. And it´s WA/WB. A is of course a great card for him to represent, so I sticked to my plan and get it in. I could hace just ch-called turn and river, but mine AI raise was not even a miniraise, and he could make a hero call with QQ. How is my turn play?

[Tumez]

Sorry I mean the Villian is 33/20/2.5. I´m so [censored] tired. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[freeucm]

I think this is bad you beat a pair of 7s 8s 10s js, who plays them this way? The only hand that call has you beat. Well i mean since u probably were not scared of the 9s, 88 combos the ace is the worst possible card in the deck to hit on turn the check call on flop is fine, but why would u be so aggressive on the turn after u check called the flop when the worst possible card hits. Why not check/fold for a better ev+ spot after the way you played this hand.

[Tumez]

Are you suggesting that I fold the turn, or call turn, and call river, or call turn, and fold to river bet?

[Kirkrrr]

Turn is really nasty and yeah, you might occasionally get called by the 2nd best hand still, but I'd just go into check-call mode at that point... on the river he might even check behind some mediocre Aces that he's not folding to your raise AI so you save some when behind. I think you should've modified your plan once the mother of all scare cards hit.

Kirk

[freeucm]

even check calling the turn doesnt put us in a favorable spot

[Tumez]

[ QUOTE ]
I think this is bad you beat a pair of 7s 8s 10s js, who plays them this way? The only hand that call has you beat. Well i mean since u probably were not scared of the 9s, 88 combos the ace is the worst possible card in the deck to hit on turn the check call on flop is fine, but why would u be so aggressive on the turn after u check called the flop when the worst possible card hits. Why not check/fold for a better ev+ spot after the way you played this hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah I admit that the c-r AI, was bad, cuz it woun´t fold better hands, and only seldomly gets called by worse, but isn´t folding this pretty weak? I don´t mind it W/O history against nitty guy, but we have a aggressive history together. I´m positive he fires here pretty much everything else exept TT, JJ, and perhaps QQ. Wouldn´t we double barrel this turn?
I´m just thinking does he have a air enough often, to us call profitable.

[freeucm]

So many hands beat yours, just dont put chips in the pot when your behind and hear so many combos beat yours.

[Kirkrrr]

[ QUOTE ]
So many hands beat yours, just dont put chips in the pot when your behind and hear so many combos beat yours.

[/ QUOTE ]

Okay, seriously, enough already. Versus a good, aggro villain that 3-bets frequently in a short-handed game folding KK every time a scare card hits will get you eviscerated. We're not behind that many hands and any good LAG will bet that turn once OP checks. With 100BB stacks in a 3-bet pot folding at any point is pretty much not an option... the turn made it bad to check-raise, but no one is talking about folding here.

Kirk

[freeucm]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
So many hands beat yours, just dont put chips in the pot when your behind and hear so many combos beat yours.

[/ QUOTE ]

Okay, seriously, enough already. Versus a good, aggro villain that 3-bets frequently in a short-handed game folding KK every time a scare card hits will get you eviscerated. We're not behind that many hands and any good LAG will bet that turn once OP checks. With 100BB stacks in a 3-bet pot folding at any point is pretty much not an option... the turn made it bad to check-raise, but no one is talking about folding here.

Kirk

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah i mean he only about 88 hands of 9s unlikely and about 121 hands of aces, i mean when we check raise all in he will call with what JJ QQ 1010? No because he will put us on AK AQ, maybe even AJ..this is exactly how the guy posting here should be thinking and if hes thinking otherwise he is going about these spots the wrong way. Were not even putting villian on the 9, this other guy will flat call flop with an ace a lot of times just to see if he catches on turn, he shouldnt be overplaying jj 1010 99 on this board.

This other guy obviously isn't fearing quads 9's or a9 from this guy here, this is how most think here so I will give each opponent that when the ace hits and he fires after the flat call on flop why bother calling?

There is no point.