Two spots same hand same villain within 5min

[HustlerLA]

This is a live 5/5NL game in LA, $500 buyin. I had two very similar hands come up with teh same villain within 5 min of eachother. The game is playing loose passive and pretty soft all around.
Hand1) I am in SB with Q [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]T [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
Several limpers around and I make a small pot sweatner raise since stacks were getting deeper and my hand plays well multiway. I raise to $15 and its called all around. 5 players to flop, Pot$75.
Flop is T [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]9 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]8 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img],
I lead out for $55, and BB thinks for a little while and raises to $150 total. Folds around. Hero?

* My thoughts, this is a pretty good flop for me, I have TPGK back door flush draw and gutshot straight draw. But BB has just sat down, quiet, somewhat shy Persian man in his 40's, with no history, I dont think he raises without beating my hand, if I knew he just had something like AT I would call, but I know I have outs but have no idea which they are.

5min later, Exact same scenario, I am in SB with Q [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]T [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], this time I chose to just complete from SB and BB checks (same persian man). Flop 5way.
FLop is T [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]8 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]2 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
Pot is $25 I bet $20, BB rasies quickly to $60, all fold around to me. Hero?
How does the texture of the board change your response to Hero's action? This board is very dry, doesit make a fold easier?

Results in white below:
<font color="white"> Hero folds both. I felt on the fence on the first one, 2nd one I folded quickly. </font>

[xtwalker]

hand one is an ugly spot. I really don't like your raise PF. You don't price anyone out of the hand, and you don't define any hands at all. The only thing you did was build a pot that you are going to play out of possition with mediocre cards. As it is, you almost certainly ran into 2 pr or a made straight. I don't want to play this one OOP with someone showing huge hand strength on effectively an unraised hand. Easy fold.

Second hand, depends very largly on the first one. I am actually more apt to call the second hand, but it is very read dependant at this point.

[stinkpaw]

For hand #1, if you hit the flop you are most likely going to hit it with a draw, which you will have to play OOP, so I really don't like the PFR to 'sweeten the pot.'

That PFR actually cut down your IOs if you hit your draw.

A small PP is a better hand to do this type of PFR as when you do hit the flop it will be with a set, which is a strong hand that plays well OOP.


In hand #2 you show strength by donking into a large field and BB shows even more strength by raising your strong bet when he has players behind him left to act. Board is dry, your TPGK is toast and u should automuck.

[HustlerLA]

I agree with you all that the PFR was bad, I would do it if I was on BTN considering it does play well multiway and the opponents are generally pretty bad. OOP it sets up tough spots like this one. At least I learned from my mistake, and didnt raise it the 2nd time [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img], but given that I did PFR in hand, is this a fold?
Hand2 I thought was an easy fold, but I wasnt as confident in hand1