10-20 vs argoe

[jaybizzle]

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U dont 3 bet this in position?

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I do a decent amount of the time...Like I said I botched every round of betting.

[rand]

good line by him

sadly i think were face up so...this is pretty player dependent
i know u said u botched it but, bet if i can raise the flop for value im prolly betting all the following streets for value too

anyway, guess a default is a fold here but he must know you have almost exactly KQ

[n2p]

i prefer just calling the flop

[Moonshine]

not 3-betting is fine

i dont like your river bet. His range for calling your flop raise is prob mostly better queens, sets, overpairs, maaybe 57.

I dont think your river bet will get value from any hand in that range you beat and it may convince him to turn lots of hands with showdown value (JJ, TT) into bluffs. I think a bigger bet has a better chance of being called by one of those hands.

I think i would rather bet the turn than the river. I dont think redargoe is a great dude to bet/call this river with

[shmahappens]

Why can't this be a bluff? we check behind on turn which is either air that took a stab on the flop, or a mediocre hand that doesn't want to face a raise on the turn

therefore he knows the river bet is a slim value bet, you checked the turn to snap call any river bluff, so a river cr is his best move

[Moonshine]

[ QUOTE ]
Why can't this be a bluff? we check behind on turn which is either air that took a stab on the flop, or a mediocre hand that doesn't want to face a raise on the turn

therefore he knows the river bet is a slim value bet, you checked the turn to snap call any river bluff, so a river cr is his best move

[/ QUOTE ]

so you're saying red OOP floated with air after that flop raise with the intention of C/Ring river AI...

[TheWorstPlayer]

i wouldnt raise the flop. but if you do against him, it should be to try to check it down. he let you, i'd do it. now i'd fold once you get c/r'ed.

[NMcNasty]

I really hate a 3 bet with just KQ against him.

Flop raise is pretty bad, its just giving him an opportunity to play perfectly against you. You can only get away with raising for value on a dry board like this if you've been bluffing a lot on the same boards. Even then ur getting urself into tricky spots, what if he min-raises or calls and leads turn?

As played, I like your turn check, after he calls his hand range is better than your KQ on average. Betting for value on this turn is terrible imo. With a dry board like this he can throw you rope with any hand that beats you.

After a river check I don't hate a slim value bet but its still close. Usually if he's putting you on AQ or worse you're going to see him leading here with AQ or better. Still, when he comes over the top you're beat. For calling to be ok you need a few of things to happen:
1. He thinks ur raising KQ on the flop and worse
2. He thinks you're betting KQ and worse on the river
3. He thinks you're folding KQ and worse on the river

Its just much more likely he's check/deciding with 88-QJ, and with a hand worse than that its usually a min-reraise or fold situation on the flop.

[Ship Ship McGipp]

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Usually if he's putting you on AQ or worse you're going to see him leading here with AQ or better.

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what? noooo. leading this river is prett ymuch wrong for any hand that red can have. anything that is calling a river bet is betting when checked to, which makes reds hand eas y to play. since you're never checking the turn with anything that beats AQ, say, and the 8 rarely makes your hand better, and you almost never bet half pot with anything that can call a CR, he should CRAI with 99 or TT or wahtever and turn it into a bluff, since KQ is like the strongest hand in your range.

so like, you let him play this hand pretty much perfectly, and he should CRAI with 100% of his range (the except perhaps is the other KQ, and maybe QJ), but you should still fold becuase of how weird you played the rest of the hand, and the fact that you can't know how he'll react to the w ay you played it (and if you did, you didn't include it in op)

[TheWorstPlayer]

agree with your post in general, but "anything that is calling a river bet is betting when checked to". for instance, KQ should check but potentially call a bet (I'd fold, though, against red).