Ethics of datamining on stars?

[51cards]

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Can't they allow a different, easily changed SN to be displayed on the tables (not the same SN that you login)? Or would it open another different can of worms?

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I agree with this fully. If Stars is unable to stop data mining, then they should allow users to change screen names as often as they like. I would also support an option to let users display a randomly generated screen name which changes every time they change tables.

Forcing players to keep the same screen name for eternity is akin to forcing me to walk through Sadr City unarmed. At least give me a gun.

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Yeah, I just tried to wear a mask at my B&M and they kicked me out. Wtf is that? I can't have people knowing who I am and remembering how I play and that I'm a huge donkeyfish and don't know about the chekcraise and other fancy moves.

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[punter11235]

Ok.. so what about any plausible argument for datamining not being allowed ?

[StrikeR300]

If it's against the rules of the site it can not be ethical.

eth·i·cal (th-kl): Being in accordance with the accepted principles of right and wrong that govern the conduct of a profession.

From PS FAQ:
Q. In general, what kind of programs are acceptable?
A. Programs that profile your opponents, but make use of only information which you have accumulated by your own play.
Repeated at the bottom:
Q. May I use a permitted program to record information about players from hands in which I am not playing?
A. No. You may only collect hand histories and player information from hands in which you are a participant.

Is it moral to datamine? Absofrickenlutely! Why not have all the information the 8-16hr a day pro has just because you have a real job?

For the record I do not datamine at Stars, or have rakeback on FTP (even though I did not sign up through an afflilate & would appreciate it greatly, but there ToS says I can not setup a new account). It's worth more to me not to have my account closed/money taken, JMHO.

I'd also like to vote for month long level/game HH's for FPP's.

[Snipe]

I don’t see how datamining is any different than simply observing.

At a B&M joint, you’re allowed to watch the games. Why would we want to disable the ability to observe on the internet?
We don’t’? Ok – so nobody objects to watching games on the internet.

At a B&M you get 35 hands / hour. We should probably restrict hands per hour on the internet to the same rate to keep the integrity of the game. After all, if you get more than 35 hands / hour, it’s not poker.
No? Nobody agrees with this? Why? Because we’re not ruining the game, we’re simply taking advantage of technology to enhance the experience in the interest of time.

I think one can make the same argument for datamining – it’s no different than watching a game for a long time before you sit and play thereby enhancing the experience in the interest of time.

Realistically, I don't 100% agree with this statement, but think you can make a decent argument for the reasoning.

[CharlieDontSurf]

If I knew how to datamine on Stars I would...and i'd sleep fine at night

[FlushTheToilet]

Allowing the changing of player names is a good counter (but only every 4/6 months). Another option would be to only allow one observed table at a time. If someone really wants to datamine every table at a given limit they'll find a way. Just make them jump through hoops to do it.

[kdog]

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Another option would be to only allow one observed table at a time

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This is an excellent idea. Allows those who are actually interested in playing in that game to watch(or chat with/sweat a friend) and makes it a pain to datamine.

[Stake Monster]

I have nothing against datamining. It doesn't turn a bad player into a good one, and the good ones will still win vs the bad players.

[gumpzilla]

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Not everyone plays 50k hands per month. Some good players play much less for a variety of reasons. Or they play a lot but only occasionally at a particular site.

One effect of datamining is it puts part-time players on a more equal footing with high-volume pros. Table selection is crucial and where datamining helps the most. Without it the high-volume pro might still know almost everyone in the game but the occasional player wouldn't.

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How is that unfair? Is there any reason the part-time player should expect to have the same advantages as the high-volume pro in this regard?

[SwordFish]

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I don’t see how datamining is any different than simply observing.

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If you are capable of going into a B&M and accurately "observing" 10 tables at once for 12 straight hours, then you are correct, there is no difference.

SF