DeathDonkey is in "The Well"

[DeathDonkey]

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Terrible player limps from MP. Oddly enough no one follows. One or more of the blinds are fairly loose and because this is a live game even fairly sane players are more inclined to call and play it out.

You're on the CO, what range are you raising?
You're on the BN, what range are you raising?

I used to get away with highway robbery here online, struggling with this spot in live games.

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CO: 66, A8o, Axs, K7s, K9o, Q9s, QTo, JTo, JTs.
Button: CO range + 55, 44, Axo, Kxs, K7o, Q8s, J9s.

That sounds approximately right but I adjust for the button and blinds somewhat situationally.

-DeathDonkey

[Xhad]

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Based on our HU session, what limit should I be playing?

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We played in the micro tourney right?

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Yeah, I was the one who played you in the HU quarterfinals and put up a fight right up until HORSE started and I decided paying attention to that was more profitable than trying to beat you. You had said "I played well" until that point and realized I didn't know exactly what that meant since you were playing against microers, most of them fullring players. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[DeathDonkey]

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not LHE related but whatever...

Do you plan on writing more on 2-7 or badugi?

How do the players from the bigger mixed games compare to those from say the low limit UB 2-7 games. If you could comment on how most people seem to fair playing the standard games in the mix that would be awesome...ie EOTB...

Did you play a fair amount of these 'other' poker games online before you jumped into the bigger mix games? or did you just 'dive in' with some of them.

Thanks

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I'll write if something strikes me as article-worthy and I find time. I'm not a great player so I have a hard time deciding how much to write on what I feel are sort of basic concepts.

Some of the big mix players are terrible, LP as it gets, just playing their hand, calling and drawing and never going past level 0, others are very tough and will be very creative and aggressive. Most people are decent to good at omaha (ironic that I suck at it) and competent at TDL and badugi but this varies a lot and play stud games horribly.

I played a lot of low limit TDL online and some stud/8, I've played big live mix games a few times with omaha in them and tried to play squeaky tight. The first time I played 100/200 BT I had never played badugi, just knew the rules and sort of figured it out. I won like 17k in that game running sick hot at badugi but I realized with my TDL knowledge I could do ok and that I should snow a lot more than everyone was.

-DeathDonkey

[DeathDonkey]

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Hi DD,

just one question for now - could you tell us about your journey thru the levels of limit hold em? Like, where/when did you start, how long did it take you to progress through each level, did you have moments of difficulty along the way, etc.

Do you feel you've completely mastered limit as well as one could hope to master it?

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Copying some of this from an old post as there is a lot...

I was a product of the Rounders era of poker, before the Moneymaker era. Probably 5 years ago I started playing in the dorms during college and at the local indian casino, when I discovered I could play online and opened an account at UltimateBet. I played play chips and at that time they had weekly freerolls at 2:30 in the morning with real money prizes, so I'd stay up late and play in those hoping to make a big score. After a couple months I won one of those tournaments and had myself a $15 poker bankroll on UB. The thrill of winning that tournament is still one of the memories I'll never forget.

I began to play penny limit and NL holdem and around then discovered 2+2 and with the help of this micro forum, I moved up to 25c/50c and probably had a bit over a $100 bankroll. Then, one Sunday morning I played a $3 satellite on UB to their weekly $215 tournament (which was one of the biggest online at that time) and made it. I played the tournament later that afternoon and lucksacked my way to the final table! I took fourth for $4410 (I'll never forget that number), first prize was over 16k.

Suddenly I had more money in my UB account than I did in my bank account! I resolved that day to get serious about poker, started a Party poker account (hadn't earlier because 50c/1 was the smallest game they had) with an ambition to move to higher stakes. Playing lots of micro to small stakes limit holdem, and reading and posting in this forum and the Small Stakes forum during the golden age of SS in my opinion. bisonbison, chris daddy cool, evan, guyontilt, sfer, entity, and others I'm sure I'm forgetting were playing huge games online like 3/6 and I really thank them for inspiring me to get better and work hard and play a lot and try and reach those same levels.

I kept taking shots at higher full ring games until I was doing well at 3/6 and then at the time the only choice was 5/10 6max on Party. As would be a recurring theme I ran hot right away and got comfortable playing 6 max in no time, I was taking shots at 10/20 6max within a few weeks of starting at 5/10 and wound up doing pretty well there too and the money felt huge to me (as it really was in real world dollars). Right around then the party and empire split occurred and I wasn't sure what to do for a month or so, then everyone stayed on Party and I somehow checked out Empire and realized the games were amazing. Within 3 months I went from 15/30 to 100/200 on Empire, and played every 20/40 and 30/60 game going every day. I had 3 months straight of huge winnings and I've still never duplicated that which was almost 2 years ago but the games were amazing, I ran very well, and everything just came together. The sites re-merged and there were no more 100/200 games as soft as I was accustomed to so I don't really play that high now because I have too many responsibilities and other things taking up time to play in games where my edge would be so small (if any) but big live games still hold that edge for me IMO so I will play much bigger live.

-DeathDonkey

[DeathDonkey]

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Thanks for doing this.

For any format of LHE:

Are you aware of which of your skills are due to talent; what do you think your talents are (directly or indirectly related to poker skill)?

What poker things that you do well are from hard work and/or experience?

What are a couple that you struggled most with acquiring and why?

Having worked from the very bottom, what are the most important things you either did or should've done along the way?

Besides the hand value and before betting starts, what are you thinking when you're dealt a hand?

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Hi downrange,

I truly don't believe I had any poker "talent" but I did have an inclination for: strategy games, doing stuff online (I played online computer games forever before poker and it was just the next video game to me), fast mental math (which now is sort of intuitive math, I rarely make calculations while playing), and I guess gambling but I really never was a gambler before poker. I wouldn't say talents but my biggest strengths are creative strategy (thinking of lines no one would consider), not tilting (though I'm not perfect at all), and I guess just enjoyment of poker - I still love playing and don't think of it as a "job".

I feel pretty much everything is from experience, but you can enhance the experience by thinking about the game away from the table, reviewing hands, and talking to other similarly skilled people about the way you play and what you can consider doing differently. I know the biggest jumps I made were in the old 2+2 games that were filled with tough thinking players, and by chatting with people on AIM as one of us played and discussed hands / the table dynamics / etc.

I struggled with not being results oriented a lot at first I guess. I wanted poker to be simpler than it was and I was used to playing games where I could point at something and say "see! this is because of this..." and it rarely works that way in poker.

I think I did a good job of taking shots at higher levels and maybe wish I did it a bit more so. You learn soooo much seeing how the game is played the next level up and even if you have to return to your previous game you find it so much easier. I should have been more social right away, not chatting with people about strategy on AIM or in person until later, I would have picked things up quicker probably.

I'm thinking about what has happened in the recent past, who is likely to be on tilt, what that will mean they will be more likely to do (some get weak tight, most get LAGgier), my position, whether I want to quit or not, what I will do with various hands in this spot (for instance UTG in tough big game I'll decide before looking at my cards if I am going to LRR AA/KK or not).

-DeathDonkey

[DeathDonkey]

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Hello DeathDonkey,

I'd like your opinion on where (in the US) an aspiring LHE pro will consistently find the softest live games. What bankroll do you recommend?

Thank you...

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The answer for game quality is Phoenix / Casino AZ, but then you'd have to live there. I've never played anywhere on the east coast but I can't imagine California being the wrong answer [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

To be a pro you need to have 500 bb to play with, as well as separate money for living expenses for at least 6 months. Maybe that is too conservative.

-DeathDonkey

[DeathDonkey]

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Hi Mr. Death.

1. At what limit of LHE live did you first notice a disinct difference in the skill level?

2. Which(if any)are your favorite poker books?

3. Tell us about your transformation from a low limit player to a higher limit player if you could. Such as: what was your style early on, uber tight, loose, weak tight etc. Did you slowly change your style?

4. Who do you consider some of the better Live pro lHE players?

5. Do you like Gladiator movies?

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1) Live? Well its funny the first time you take a shot, you feel they are all much tougher, but then later you change your mind a lot. I found some big differences between 3/6 and 10/20 but now they don't seem so big to me. Now I guess I'd say 40/80 and 100/200.

2) Ace on the River (greenstein) and Inside the Poker Mind (feeney) - both are about psychology of a poker player and really taught me / made me think about issues besides "how to play hand x in position y at game z".

3) I am the type of person to try and figure something out right away, I wasn't a true "fish" for long because I knew there was skill to poker and I went looking for the answers in books very quickly. I'm sure I was too loose and too passive at first but never ridiculously so. I've never been accused of being too tight but I think truthfully I'd rather have a LAG student than a weak tight one, because the LAG is doing a lot right and can easily be fixed.

4) Lots of people I don't even know probably are quietly raking it in, but Devon / Savagegamble, MadCaddy, Tommy Hang, Hansu, and CMO are all some monsters I've played live with that are no fun to have in the game.

5) I liked Gladiator, not sure what other Gladiator movies I can think of.

-DeathDonkey

[DeathDonkey]

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Do you think moving up in limits, is like the experience people have while they are going to math classes?

For me, it went something like this....

I get this, I get this, I get this......I'm never going to be a mathemetician, because this is an alien language.

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No I disagree with this hugely. There is nothing mystical about any limit of poker, its just about bankroll and aggression.

-DeathDonkey

[DeathDonkey]

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DD, thanks for doing this!

1. In a recent thread (either here or DC, don't remember) we were talking about raising suited broadways if the pot had not been raised yet. What guidelines do you have regarding this? Your're not opening UTG w/ QTs right, so where does one draw the line? The hand specifically discussed in the thread was raising KTs in SB after a few limpers.

2. I am primarily a limit player beginning to dabble in NL. The LHE->NL forum is off to a good start and it is nice to see your presence there. What has been the most difficult part in transitioning from playing limit to playing NL?

DD, thanks again.

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1) Well I play 6 max or shorter so often that its pretty much correct for me to open any two suited broadways in any unraised pot. In full ring though yes you have to draw the line at the weakest ones but its honestly not a big mistake if you raised them all. Hands such as these don't have very bad reverse implied odds (RIO) because they are capable of playing well in big pots and/or small pots. If you can win with one pair, they are fine for that, if you need a straight or flush to win a big pot, they will hold their own too, so there isn't much risk in building a pot with hands like this. The key to remember is if I raise in the SB with KT of clubs in a 5 way pot and the flop comes 345 all spades, I DON'T HAVE TO BET.

2) Just overcoming your natural tendencies and to stop and think about your action. Like on the river you will quickly go to value bet what you feel is the best hand but you need to ask in NL "how much should I bet, if any" and "what hands WILL CALL this bet and is that a good thing or not". In limit some decisions are so easy you don't care what calls you, you know that you are usually going to win and if they call they call, in NL this is hardly ever the case and many "easy value bets" just aren't profitable. This is just one example of a limit tendency that you have to stop and think deeply about before acting in NL.

-DeathDonkey

[DeathDonkey]

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Based on our HU session, what limit should I be playing?

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We played in the micro tourney right?

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Yeah, I was the one who played you in the HU quarterfinals and put up a fight right up until HORSE started and I decided paying attention to that was more profitable than trying to beat you. You had said "I played well" until that point and realized I didn't know exactly what that meant since you were playing against microers, most of them fullring players. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

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Ahh I remember now. Well you didn't let me run you over as easily as the others did. You realized how difficult it is to make a hand you feel confident with and played back at me some and kept me off balance. I seem to remember you still making some simple mistakes such as choosing awful board textures to try bluffs on but in general you were more aggressive and less afraid than the others and that served you well. I think that shows me you will do fine at the low to mid limits as long as you game select well and could easily improve enough to crush everyone in those games and be ready for bigger.

-DeathDonkey