Limbaugh attacks Michael J. Fox

[Madtown]

I'm of the firm belief that anyone who opposes ESC on the basis that an embryo is human life and thus shouldn't be destroyed should also oppose in vitro fertility treatments, since that also results in the destruction/storage of embryos:

"Most stem cell researchers use embryos that were created but not used in in vitro fertility treatments to derive new stem cell lines. Most of these embryos are slated to be destroyed, or stored indefinitely. In the United States alone, there are at least 400,000 such embryos."

Having several friends from HS who are very Religious Right (sigh), I never hesitate to point this out to them. They generally stutter and then say "whatever" and stop talking.

I have no problem with someone being against ESC. Paraphrasing MJF in the interview he did after Rush's attack on him, if someone has thought about the issue spiritually, emotionally, intelligently, weighed the issue properly, and come to rest on the position that embryos are life and that they morally oppose the destruction of embryos, then more power to them. As long as they can respect me for disagreeing with them after a similar amount of deliberation, then I can respect them. No name-calling. No derision or anger. Frustration, maybe.

But if they don't also oppose in vitro, then they're hypocrites. In vitro destroys far more embryos then ESC research would. Yet you almost never hear of a group trying to ban in vitro.

So basically, wacki, I'm saying that if you do end up deciding you oppose ESC, then you have to oppose in vitro, or you're a moron. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[illeagle]

The thread on the most useless subject on the front page has the most views and responses. Go figure.

[wacki]

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Ok you take that month to decide on this issue. In that time the election will be over and Korea/China/Japan/EU will be making the stem cell discoveries and have a huge leg up on whenever the Moralistic States decide to get in the game. There is research going on right now in Asia and the longer it takes the US to start the more it will cost "American Science", which has of late been making "me too" cures to nonexistant and pointless afflictions. Restless leg syndrome anyone? How about "going often".

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I don't think you understand my position. I'm pretty extreme/liberal when it comes to biomedical research. I'm a huge supporter of GATTACA style breeding. That is something very few people and probably no politician will support.

When it comes to ESC's I'm not convinced enough *yet* that massive leaps will occur by expanding beyond simply ASC research. I've been told by several people that tissue engineering is just way too far away for anything to happen on a reasonable time scale. Now stem cells are not a one trick pony but until I learn more I can't have a strong opinion on embryonic stem cells.

I'm more pissed at the media and their complete incompetence when it comes to informing the public about stem cell science. I'm going to send out some e-mails tonight and read some reviews so I can hopefully get to the bottom of this.

That being said, lets pretend I become a huge advocate of ESC's. That will in no way or shape change my opinion that if life begins at conception then we are performing something very similar to a lot of Nazi style experiments. Now I tend to believe life starts with brainwaves and the ability to feel pain/emotions so I don't consider this a huge deal. However, that doesn't mean a significant majority of the people on this planet disagree. I think we should be honest when we say we are killing people in labs to save the lives of others. But like others have already said, most of those were going to be killed anyway.

[anatta]

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I'm pretty extreme/liberal when it comes to biomedical research. I'm a huge supporter of GATTACA style breeding. That is something very few people and probably no politician will support.

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Oh yeah, well I support massive swimming pools of cloned babies farms for Matix-like energy harvesting.