AP, rigged, etc. #8981.4 - the plot thickens

[NLSoldier]

yeah you guys ruling out sit n goes b/c of the variance/push fold stuff are ridiculous. The way you lose sngs is usually failed blind steals where someone wakes up with a big hand or big coolers. Being able to avoid both of those would be enormous. Sure you would have to win some flips and some 80/20s but you would rarely have your tournament life at stake.

[El Diablo]

zen and others,

Games w/ higher variance where you would still lose a fair amount, but you would tilt the odds in your direction, are the perfect place to use hole card viewing capabilities.

[waveydavey]

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Clearly you didn't read the part of my post where I asked where to start such a thread, obv. But you're also right about getting flamed, even though I have perfect evidence. I'm a small time player and I don't need people jumping all over me telling me that I shouldn't be doing this or that anyway. So let's just say [censored] it and get back to the AP deal. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] Forget I even mentioned it.

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Wait, I want to see this.

[/ QUOTE ]you must speak sir! if its true [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

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Where, pray tell, would be a good forum on this board to start such a thread? Bearing in mind that my only exposure is by following the AP threads in the BBV forum, and this has nothing to do with AP. (Hence my original 'Off Topic' post.)

[whangarei]

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Quoting a poster about Mike Paulle's claim that he saw open hole cards on PokerStars at the WSOP...

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saw the open client in Poker Stars. I don't know anything about Absolute software or any of the principals involved.

If this is true it would mean that Stars is lying because they claim this is totally impossible. I think he is probably mistaken and was probably just watching a final table replay or something.


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Hi folks -
I've been staying out of this because I've had nothing useful to add. Suddenly, I do.

Nobody at PokerStars can see the players' hole cards during a hand. They can't now and they never could. Not me (when I worked for PokerStars), not the owner, not the programmers. [1]

I was at the WSOP when Mike Paulle was there working for PokerStars. I can think of two possible things that Mike saw that he might mistake for an "open cards" client:

1. PokerStars staff use a hand history replayer called Poker Villain. Of course, everybody's Aunt Susie has one of those now, but back then (2004, I believe) it was a big deal. It's possible that he saw such a display on somebody's laptop screen and thought he was seeing live hole cards.

2. PokerStars simulcast the final table of the main event onto its client that year. [2] We had set up special software for this purpose. We were not able to see the players' hands, of course, but again, Mike might have seen a table image with hands displayed that could have confused him to think he was seeing live hole cards from the PokerStars client.

That's it. In short, I'm not sure what Mike Paulle saw, but what I know he didn't see was open hole cards on the PokerStars client during live play.

I will bet my professional reputation on that.

Regards, Lee

P.S. Just as I was getting ready to post this, PokerStars got an email back from Mike Paulle with a retraction of sorts, and they asked me to include that here. The exact text of Mike's email, unedited, is included here:

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If i say areplay and not live action, I wouldn't know
the difference. Feel free to use that as a retraction.

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[1] It is, of course, possible in theory that PokerStars has written such software since I left its employ in April. I'm prepared to bet 100% of my bankroll that they didn't do that.

[2] I know that seems impossible to believe now, with the carefully choreographed and paid-for press coverage. But those three years ago are a lifetime before now. Back then, it was the wild west and PokerStars' influence on the field gave us an important entry into the main event final table milieu.

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Very reassuring, Lee. Many thanks to you and Pokerstars for giving US players a trusted home for online poker.

[whangarei]

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yeah you guys ruling out sit n goes b/c of the variance/push fold stuff are ridiculous. The way you lose sngs is usually failed blind steals where someone wakes up with a big hand or big coolers. Being able to avoid both of those would be enormous. Sure you would have to win some flips and some 80/20s but you would rarely have your tournament life at stake.

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25% ROI easy. Tough to make it add up to 7 million, but still a very lucrative, low-risk way to exploit a superuser account.

[pr0crast]

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yeah you guys ruling out sit n goes b/c of the variance/push fold stuff are ridiculous. The way you lose sngs is usually failed blind steals where someone wakes up with a big hand or big coolers. Being able to avoid both of those would be enormous. Sure you would have to win some flips and some 80/20s but you would rarely have your tournament life at stake.

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25% ROI easy. Tough to make it add up to 7 million, but still a very lucrative, low-risk way to exploit a superuser account.

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25% ROI if you eliminate the small mistakes, but 100%+ if you are able to have a huge 1st to 2nd ratio by playing perfectly once heads up (stealing blinds when you know he'll fold, folding when you know he'll call and you aren't a satisfactorily large favorite).

[zen_rounder]

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zen and others,

Games w/ higher variance where you would still lose a fair amount, but you would tilt the odds in your direction, are the perfect place to use hole card viewing capabilities.

[/ QUOTE ]yes i see what you mean, like cover plays when card counting in blackjack [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[apefish]

Dear Absolute Poker-

It took Lee Jones less than a day after the blog entry was linked to come here and give a well thought out and written reply to clarify something relating to discussion generated because of your ineptness as an operator.

You could learn something from that.

Lee and Stars please keep doing what you do.


-apefish

[THAY3R]

I feel like it would be very easy to spot a super use in Turbo STTs.

[zen_rounder]

just listening to the pod cast of rounders poker show. not sure how many people listen to this show, but it can only help. great work!!