Two Plus Two Newer Archives  

Go Back   Two Plus Two Newer Archives > General Poker Discussion > Brick and Mortar

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 11-10-2007, 03:01 PM
Garland Garland is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 2,828
Default Dealer contributes to confusion... Floor please!

Here’s a situation that occurred in a live no-limit game recently:

The board reads: J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Turn 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] River: 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

There’s some action before the river, but I’m not exactly sure how much. Two players left in the pot: UTG and MP. UTG checked subtlety either by tapping lightly or saying “check” lightly, MP then asked the dealer “he checked?” in such a fashion that the word “checked” was emphasized and heard loudly, but the word “he” was deemphasized and somewhat muffled. I, along with other people around him, could probably testify his words were inquisitive and not intended as action. However, the dealer, whose first language clearly isn’t English, believed MP only said “check” and then repeated “check”. Then UTG upon hearing the dealer quickly flipped up his hand to reveal K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], but MP is now screaming bloody Mary and wants to bet now. Floor is called over. What is your ruling?

Garland
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 11-10-2007, 03:05 PM
RR RR is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: on-line
Posts: 5,113
Default Re: Dealer contributes to confusion... Floor please!

Was UTG in position to hear that it was a question? If not I would say it was a check as he took an action that was interpreted by the dealer as a check. We do have to consider the character of the players involved. That is if UTG is a known angle shooter that would flip over his hand knowing MP hasn't acted yet I might be inclined to let MP bet.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 11-10-2007, 03:17 PM
TruFeelings521 TruFeelings521 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 141
Default Re: Dealer contributes to confusion... Floor please!

This exact situation happened to me. I opened a pot in early position to like $15 in a 1/2 NLHE game with K [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
K [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] and the BB called me. The flop came K [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 3 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
He checked, I made a bet, he called. Turn came J [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] . He checked again, I made a bet, he called again. The river was a Q [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] . I jump for joy making Kings full of Queens. I am awaiting my turn to take this guy to valuetown and never see him motion. However, everyone starts to look at me and I asked "Did he check?" The villian immediately flips over his K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 10 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

The floor got called (this is my first time ever needing to involve a floor) The dealer stated that he heard me mumble something before saying check, however he clearly heard check. I am flipping out because I want to bet my second nuts. After deliberating, the floor stated the villians action of checking would stand and that I could check, bet or fold.

I tossed out a tiny ass bet (smaller than the turn bet)because I figured by the way I acted he knew i had a monster. He insta called and then flipped out that I tried to angle him by saying to the floor "So I gotta show my hand now??" (in a pissed off tone).

The people sitting next to me heard me ask if he checked and agreed that the guy was just trying to angle me to get a cheap showdown. Also why the hell would I not bet Kings full in position. I am no Jennifer Tilly. It didn't work. I love the floor! [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 11-10-2007, 03:22 PM
Rick Nebiolo Rick Nebiolo is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 6,634
Default Re: Dealer contributes to confusion... Floor please!

If you aren't sure of the action call "Time" and ask the dealer the question "What and/or where is the action?."

And make it a habit to never say bet or check in a game (they sound alike when it's noisy). Let your chips or clear hand tap do the talking.

~ Rick
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 11-10-2007, 03:28 PM
redfisher redfisher is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 469
Default Re: Dealer contributes to confusion... Floor please!

This is a good example of why you should never use check, raise, bet, call, or fold in a sentence unless that's the action you intend to take. Why risk a bad decision when you don't have to?
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 11-10-2007, 03:31 PM
AngusThermopyle AngusThermopyle is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Riding Binky toward Ankh-Morpork
Posts: 4,366
Default Re: Dealer contributes to confusion... Floor please!

"Did he check?" [img]/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img]

"What did he do?" [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 11-10-2007, 04:08 PM
TacitMike TacitMike is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Awkward chic
Posts: 42
Default Re: Dealer contributes to confusion... Floor please!

[ QUOTE ]
I am flipping out because I want to bet my second nuts.

[/ QUOTE ]

Third nuts, arguably fourth (depending on how you count).
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 11-10-2007, 04:29 PM
budblown budblown is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Smelling the 6 ft Kush plant
Posts: 450
Default Re: Dealer contributes to confusion... Floor please!

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I am flipping out because I want to bet my second nuts.

[/ QUOTE ]

Third nuts, arguably fourth (depending on how you count).

[/ QUOTE ]

If you coun't retarded, 2nd. If you coun't stupid, 3rd. If you coun't like the rest of us, 4th.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 11-10-2007, 04:36 PM
UbinTook UbinTook is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 347
Default Re: Dealer contributes to confusion... Floor please!

Its a check.
This happens fairly often and i always remind the players...do not use the word check in any context other than checking, phrase it differently if you are unsure of what is happening.
What happened?
What did he do?
Is it on me?
Who is it on?

THAT said, i see players flip hands before the LTA has acted at all, that player always gets to act as he chooses, and i tell the others that is is best/safest to always wait until i/the dealer ask to see the hands.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 11-10-2007, 05:14 PM
Garland Garland is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 2,828
Default Re: Dealer contributes to confusion... Floor please!

[ QUOTE ]
Was UTG in position to hear that it was a question? If not I would say it was a check as he took an action that was interpreted by the dealer as a check. We do have to consider the character of the players involved. That is if UTG is a known angle shooter that would flip over his hand knowing MP hasn't acted yet I might be inclined to let MP bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

UTG was across the table form MP. Character for both players is neutral.

Garland
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:19 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.